during a very long hike across the Alps I stumbled into a group of very upset farmers who desperately were looking for 3 cows that got separated from their herd during a severe storm and lightening. Since I had f-all to do other than walk for several hundred more miles, I offered to lend them an extra pair of eyes to speed up the search. It turned out that 2 of them were dead, one killed by lightening under a tree, the other fell off the ridge. We never found the 3rd cow during all the time that I was there (4 days in total). They told me that it's normal for herd animals that when they break lose from the herd for too long that they become very hard to integrate back. Once you separate them for a few days and they learn to survive by themselves, even you catch them they're becoming very likely candidates to bolt on you in the future.
weeks later the farmer texted me to say thanks once more and to update me: The 3rd cow has turned up (weeks later). And since the animal was back it already tried to do a runner on him a couple of times.
Maybe this sounds silly but I think humans are very much alike. Once people are happy by themselves and able to live without the need for friends (either due to circumstance or free will) it becomes difficult to integrate them back. I value friends and those I know from 30 years ago. But making new friends? It's not for want, but it's impossible to get close to anyone the older you get.
- consider men especially. very few of my male friends are actually able to create new friendships as they age. women are more skilled and open to maintain relationships. if you think this is hyperbole think about your own or other people's dad's in their 50ies or older and imagine them going out by themselves to actively bring new people into the group/family for the purpose of becoming friends. (friendships don't work that way, they rely on common struggle that is needed to build trust. the older we get the less our chances of going through a common struggle (like puberty). See also army training programs where people are thrown into hard situations just for the sake of bonding etc.
I've always been one that straddles this line. I enjoy the company of others, but only a few at a time. More than 2-3 people and it's more stressful than fun, and I either avoid it or check out and sit in a corner.
Articles like these do not understand people like me. They make the common mistake of assuming that everyone is the same as them, deep down inside. They are not. Some people are extroverts, and some are introverts, and most are somewhere in-between.
First, a slight technical aside - I'm impressed that you had the opportunity to divert on that trip. Some of my most cherished travel moments have been when, under no particular time constraints or schedule, I've been able to just do something interesting & random. At the risk of sounding churlish, I'm also impressed you were able to walk several hundred more miles in 4 days through a highly mountainous region that's ~500 x ~200 miles in size. (Of course, they'd have been using metric there - 800 x 200 km.) I imagine the area's mostly commons, as far as nomadic farmers are concerned, but they do sound like highly energetic cattle - hopefully they were dairy rather than meat breeds.
Second, evolutionarily speaking I believe humans have adapted to groups (herds) of ~30, but we're all on various spectrums, including the need for social interaction. It's a nice idea that there's a tipping point that any of us could reach where solitude is exclusively sought, but my (anecdotal) experience is that there's plenty of people who, no matter how much time they may be forced to spend with their own thoughts, have no interest in embracing a primarily solo arrangement.
I'm trying to guess your age - you mention people you knew from 30 years ago - so presumably you're 35+, but then you mention 'your own or other people's dads in their 50s' which implies a (conventional) upper limit of ~39. In which case I'm 10-15 years older than you, and can attest to a) a decreasing interest, or perhaps just available energy, in developing new friendships, but also b) an utter delight, absent the 'common struggle' that you think is a prerequisite, when I get to really & properly know someone over the space of many months, and despite subconscious protestations, am led to the ineluctable conclusion I have a new friend.
> I'm also impressed you were able to walk several hundred more miles in 4 days through
to clarify: I stopped my hike to help the farmers and I left them after 4 days. I didn't walk several hundred miles in 4 days. 4 days was just the time of my stop ;)
the journey / hike was planned to last for 2 months. there is a lot of distance you can cover if you plan to walk 20-30/km a day. altitude, weather etc doesn't make it any easier. I wrote about it here in case you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22256055
> hopefully they were dairy rather than meat breeds.
dairy cattle, this is the setting I'm describing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_transhumance ... you have usually some hut in the middle of nowhere often above the tree line with a "Halter" (keeper) looking after lifestock. Their job is to count the animals every day and make sure they haven't left the territory. The number of animals depends on how many farmers they have who give them the animals during the summer. These places usually also offer a shelter to hikers and mountaineers and are very common in the Alps. For me it was a great way to spend a few days to rest my legs and look after body hygiene (normally slept in the woods or any shelter I could build or find)
Hehe - my scythe blade is from Styria, though I've never been there. (I had it shipped from Cornwall back to Australia many years ago.)
That walk sounds tremendous, though well beyond my capabilities. Longest I've done is the Overland Track in Tasmania, Australia - and that was over 8 days (it can be done in 3).
Were the cattle tagged or branded? It sounds like there's a huge non-fenced / unbounded area to try to track these beasts.
cattle are tagged and I had lots of ideas about smart-agriculture and way to make the farmers (the "halters") job easier. mentioning these technologies to the people up there is not a good idea. it's not about making things easier for them or being "more productive", "carving out more time for other things", ... the chore is the point. it's part of this way of living. and once I spent some time with them I also agreed with them.
if you bought the scythe it in Styria it would probably be a "Schroeckenfux"[1] ... nice gear!! It's also the best way to tend after the grass. You can also reach everywhere :)
Styria was probably the best part in all the hiking. It has the densest and oldest forest in Austria and it is a little tiny bit more out of the way for tourism to reach it except Vienna. I spent nearly a 3 weeks there and did some extra tours criss-cross around the region because of how beautiful is there.
Sadly never been to Tasmania. I did the backpacking thing back in the early 90ies, where coming from Indonesia I visited Perth, bought a car and then drove around the continent for a year. Best time of my life and only fond memories of Australians and how they welcoming they were. It was mind blowing to see such a culture difference for a stiff European and be warmly greeted even in the supermarket with "have a great day".
Best memory of Australia (many good ones) was when I had a boat drop us off at one of the uninhabited Whitsunday islands just with enough water (and not enough food) and we camped near the beach. Monitor lizards eating our food (so after day 3 we hunted and ate them because fish wouldn't bite). We also tried to eat the lime color ants which we heard the Aboriginals would eat. (you won't get full from them) Totally nuts lol.
I really like your hiking story. Ultimately, I think it’s a matter of investment. There’s a high cost to building relationships, and there are lots of other things to do with your time. And when you’ve found contentment in solitude, the investment costs required for new friendships begin to look unfavorable.
thanks. yes I think so - for me it's just another form of investment. instead of investing in being around people, invest in being content with yourself. it's hard work but the reward is all yours. and just because anxiety or depression looms every once in a while doesn't mean the "project" or strategy was a failure. just means there is more work to do.
fwiw I still love being around people but instead of spending 9/10 hours among people I now spend 9/10 hours alone. that is I still have a job and can't always shield myself. but it works better for me than by chasing potential friends, or worse chasing a potential romantic partner (if I have a partner I will need friends even less, at least this is how I see other men my age, ... getting rid of all their male friends is what many men do once they start building a nest ...).
The difference is also that I cherish every chance to socialize a lot more now because it's not a given. When hiking I didn't see anyone for several days - so even the odd hiker I met seemed like a gift. In a way it also changed me from saying "hell is other people", to "I love company and being around people".
doesn't mean that I never feel lonely, the difference today is how I respond to that feeling I guess.
> friendships don't work that way, they rely on common struggle that is needed to build trust. the older we get the less our chances of going through a common struggle (like puberty)
I think this is true for "friends for life" that you make in school/university/army, but definitely it's possible to make new friends at 50. Granted, it won't be the same "will drive all night to bail you out" type of close friendship and more of a "joking around while at the BBQ".
In my opinion you are missing the point of parent's comment. It's possible to live by yourself without anyone. The question is the quality of that life. I've seen many, many, many people struggling with their daily problems to the point of suffering anxiety, depression and many other mental disorders and feel a lot of relief just by talking to someone else.
I agree with your point of being difficult to make friends the older you get but I for one, love to learn about others backgrounds and stories. If that lead to a new friendship I very much welcome it.
I wonder if there is a market for people to go to like a private bootcamp to make friends. There is definitely something to be said for bonds forged in adversity, and maybe people would voluntarily place themselves there to build new connections in their adult life. But, if you have the means to stop your regular life and do this, you can probably make friends in other ways.
weeks later the farmer texted me to say thanks once more and to update me: The 3rd cow has turned up (weeks later). And since the animal was back it already tried to do a runner on him a couple of times.
Maybe this sounds silly but I think humans are very much alike. Once people are happy by themselves and able to live without the need for friends (either due to circumstance or free will) it becomes difficult to integrate them back. I value friends and those I know from 30 years ago. But making new friends? It's not for want, but it's impossible to get close to anyone the older you get.
See also:
- Lancet study on "the psychological impact of quarantine": https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
- consider men especially. very few of my male friends are actually able to create new friendships as they age. women are more skilled and open to maintain relationships. if you think this is hyperbole think about your own or other people's dad's in their 50ies or older and imagine them going out by themselves to actively bring new people into the group/family for the purpose of becoming friends. (friendships don't work that way, they rely on common struggle that is needed to build trust. the older we get the less our chances of going through a common struggle (like puberty). See also army training programs where people are thrown into hard situations just for the sake of bonding etc.