eh, I didn't go to college. of course, when I graduated highschool it was 1997, and I had 2 years of paid experience as a sysadmin, so I was able to jump right into a .com job, and I'm a UNIX SysAdmin- a computer janitor. SysAdmins often have less formal education than Developers, so some of this was just that I 'got lucky' - but I do know many others who have done ok without formal education.
Yeah, if I had stuck it out, I'd probably be earning another 20%-30%, (just looking at what my co-workers make) but I'm still comfortably into the six figure range.
Granted, that's not great for the bay area, average nerd salary around here is north of $140K, and I don't rate that unless I'm contracting, but it's certainly an OK salary for someone who hasn't hit 30 yet.
The key to making decent money without college is to get jobs that count (really, this is good advice regardless of your other educational plans. Most places a year of experience is worth a little less than a year of education. If you can get both, you are golden.) If you want to be a computer guy, don't take a summer job tending a till- if you can't find an internship, pester local offices to see if they need a windows reboot monkey, or see if you can get the local web-design place to give you minimum wage to do basic stuff. Or repair computers for your parent's friends. Charge $5 or $10/hr if you have to... it's experience and reccomendations you are after at that stage.
My first job was at a mom and pop computer repair place... I was paid less than minimum wage, but it was an awesome experience, and it paid off handsomly. Remember that if you don't have education, you need experience. Without education or experience, nobody is going to hire you for a 'real job' (at least for 'real pay') Find someone willing to let you do a 'real job' for next to no pay for a period of time. Remember that at these jobs a good reccomendation from the boss is worth many times over what they are paying you.
Certifications are nice, but with the exception of perhaps, the ccie, none of them can touch a few years experience doing the job you are trying to get.
I wouldn't want to discurage people from getting educated- I think college can be very valuable (look at my grammar.) but not going to college doesn't condemn you to poverity.
"... SysAdmins often have less formal education than Developers, so some of this was just that I 'got lucky' - but I do know many others who have done ok without formal education. ..."
You could argue SysAdmins with "a bit" of training make high quality developers. Of the best developers I know a lot are from the SysAdmin tree. The one downside of back room work though is it is just ripe for outsourcing. Narrow focus has it's own evolutionary disadvantages and it is "our" doing. This is one thing Phil Greenspun mentioned in JL's "Founders" and another reason startups kick-ass - outsource the management not the engineering.
Yeah. I know some very good developers who were first SysAdmins. Even I have written a patch here and there to various system programs. To 'level up' as a sysadmin, even if you don't want to be a dev, you do need to know some programming. I don't know if I have the attention span to sit down and write a large app from end to end, but many times I've had to hack up the programs a client was using. I once patched courier-imap so my employer could continue to use the same UIDLs
Ugh. nearly all customers were using pop3 like IMAP- 'leave mail on server' the problem was that UIDLS needed to stay the same, (the UIDL value is an identifier of a pop3 message- the pop3 client uses it keep track of what messages are new in the pathalogical 'leave messages on server' scheme. If we changed the UIDLs, all messages would be 'new' to the mail client and customers would scream.) and qpopper UIDLs contain characters that can't be in filenames, while courier-imap's pop3 daemon uses the UIDL for the filename... so I hacked it so that if the filename started with 0x, it treated the filename as a hex-encoded UIDL. (otherwise it acted as normal... that way next time they upgrade the courier server, they probably don't need to include my patch... most of the old 0x mails will be gone in a number of months.) A simple change, but it allowed us to move to maildir (which isn't always faster, but in this case was massively faster) without disturbing the customers. But yeah. as a more senior SysAdmin, you are expected to occasionally deal with that sort of thing. Being able to kindof read debugger output also really helps.
Oh, also the 'got lucky' comment was more about coming of age during the .com boom than about becoming a SysAdmin. The .com boom (and my timing) was luck. Becoming a SysAdmin, well, that was more the 'path of least resistance' at least once I got started down this path.
"... Ugh. nearly all customers were using pop3 like IMAP- 'leave mail on server' the problem was that UIDLS needed to stay the same, (the UIDL value is an identifier of a pop3 message- the pop3 client uses it keep track of what messages are new in the pathalogical 'leave messages on server' scheme. If we changed the UIDLs, all messages would be 'new' to the mail client and customers would scream.) and qpopper UIDLs contain characters that can't be in filenames, while courier-imap's pop3 daemon uses the UIDL for the filename... ..."
Not write a whole system app but the tools (like "duplo") so other devs can use them without shooting themselves in the foot having to learn or experiment in very specific niches.
Yeah, if I had stuck it out, I'd probably be earning another 20%-30%, (just looking at what my co-workers make) but I'm still comfortably into the six figure range.
Granted, that's not great for the bay area, average nerd salary around here is north of $140K, and I don't rate that unless I'm contracting, but it's certainly an OK salary for someone who hasn't hit 30 yet.
The key to making decent money without college is to get jobs that count (really, this is good advice regardless of your other educational plans. Most places a year of experience is worth a little less than a year of education. If you can get both, you are golden.) If you want to be a computer guy, don't take a summer job tending a till- if you can't find an internship, pester local offices to see if they need a windows reboot monkey, or see if you can get the local web-design place to give you minimum wage to do basic stuff. Or repair computers for your parent's friends. Charge $5 or $10/hr if you have to... it's experience and reccomendations you are after at that stage.
My first job was at a mom and pop computer repair place... I was paid less than minimum wage, but it was an awesome experience, and it paid off handsomly. Remember that if you don't have education, you need experience. Without education or experience, nobody is going to hire you for a 'real job' (at least for 'real pay') Find someone willing to let you do a 'real job' for next to no pay for a period of time. Remember that at these jobs a good reccomendation from the boss is worth many times over what they are paying you.
Certifications are nice, but with the exception of perhaps, the ccie, none of them can touch a few years experience doing the job you are trying to get.
I wouldn't want to discurage people from getting educated- I think college can be very valuable (look at my grammar.) but not going to college doesn't condemn you to poverity.