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> What happens when the dictates are not as benevolent?

I buy another phone.

Because there is plenty of competition in the smartphone market and companies willing to take my money.

But I stay with Apple because right now their walled garden is exactly what I am looking for.




The current state of having alternative options in a market could not be counted on.

Think back about a decade ago when there were a number Smartphone platforms. They were backed by (back then) industry heavy weights such as Palm, RIM, and Microsoft. If one didn't like Apple or Google Android, there were plenty of options out there. As the market matures through, consolidation happens, and now we are left with two platforms.

What happens if, tomorrow, both those platforms decided to not play nice? Are the Chinese Android phones with no Google Play Service or the Pinephone really viable and reasonable alternatives?


I'm not sure if you are implying this, but surely we don't want the government to start acting upon imagined, hypothetical future harms that do not currently exist?

If the market becomes less competitive, can't we deal with that issue then?


It wasn't my intention to imply that we need preemptive government intervention.

Rather, I just want point out that, for smartphones, we are well into maturity stage of the industry life cycle, which means it is hard for new companies to enter the market, and where existing companies are focused on generating profit (meaning companies will no longer be playing nice).

It would naive to believe that companies would continue to play nice after they are done building their marketshare.


I think Linux phones like the Phinephone are the way forward. They probably won't gain huge marketshare, but everyone that uses Linux on the desktop (probably half of HN) would enjoy them. The only complaint I have with my Pinephone is that its slow. Maybe the Librem 5's beefy processor would be better.


With respect to point (1) you're neglecting that you actually have to make an investment into the ecosystem. You can't really go somewhere else that easily because you've paid for all the apps you use -- and all the data contained therein. This isn't possible or easy to port, and is therefore forfeit. This could be a few extra hundred or thousands of dollars.

With respect to point (2) nobody's saying you can't continue to shop exclusively in the walled garden. On macOS you can opt for the walled garden via App Store, or download from anywhere else. Being able to download from anywhere else doesn't devalue or detract from thew walled garden. If you like your little nook you can keep it.


the ecosystem investment is decreasing, as most apps are changing to subscription model, at least if the app is available on both platforms.


In this discussion it's important to not reason from a personal preference. If everyone would do that I think you would agree that the world doesn't end well. We need to look at it from a society perspective. And then you will find out that competition in a equal environment with fair rules is much better for a healthy market. Please reconsider your opinion.


I think this is a fair environment though, Apple wants to vertically integrated technology with limited 3rd party API access, devs might hate it, but I think from a business perspective its a total reasonable strategy and from a consumer perspective I like the tight integration they provide. I think you are wrong about installer on their platform being up for grabs being "much better for society" because I don't think you are considering all of the second and third order consequences.

Consider this passes and then the Facebook app (or, probably even worse, Amazon) immediately becomes an app store. At that point what's to stop them from loading and running literally any arbitrary code on the phone's of everyone who updates the facebook app? Same goes for an "utility class" app where consumers have limited choice of competitors. Sure, technically inclined people might figure it out and try to raise a stink, but I guess I don't feel like the public understanding of this is good enough for this not to end badly? Remember the "Facebook Research" VPN[1]? And as a society we would be trading this massive surveillance liability for... the opportunity for a handful of developers to make a killing creating a competing store? an upper middle class group to make more money? Apple to make less money?

Sorry, but we live in a world of Titans, and me, the little guy, can't really stand up to them. At least for the moment I can stand behind Apple.

[1]https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/?gu...


You're arguing about standing up to titans…by living in the shadow of one?


No? I’m arguing that I can’t stand up to Facebook or Google at all, but Apple can.


Plenty of competition? Not on OS. There is iOS and Android. Both in the hands of tech giants.

Yes I know there are other hobbyist ones, but I don't see them at Carphone Warehouse.




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