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I don't buy that drivers would prefer to not have benefits, vacation time, over time pay, or any of the other things that come with being employees.



Why do you find hard to believe that there are people valuing their freedom and independence more than those benefits? Not everybody likes being an employee and I think that is great. Choice is a great thing to have.


> there are people valuing their freedom and independence more than those benefits? Not everybody likes being an employee and I think that is great

Free to be forced to work off medical debt because they didn't have health insurance, yeah?


Yes! Absolutely! Free to make our own mistakes and learn from them instead of living protected by the Big Brother and never learn anything.

Free to make our own choices and support the consequences like adults, not children.

This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring.


> This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring.

Does the existence of minimum wage laws abrogate your "FREEDOM"?


Yes. My very first job, who gave me my start in life and taught me to Work when I knew only to consume, would not exist today.


In which case the state should cover their health benefits, make a vote for that, not for a private employer.


Sure. In the absence of governmental provided health insurance, this vote will mean that Uber/Lyft drivers won't get benefits.


But we do have government provided health insurance for qualified individuals.

In addition, Prop 22 also gave drivers health benefits from the employer


Yeah, there are plenty of companies willing to hire people as employees for minimum wage. Can't see what's so bad about having another option for those who don't like traditional employment.


Ah, the myth of American freedom: with no health insurance, no maternity leave to speak of, no safety nets, no guarantees in the form of liveable minimum wages...


That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great. Yes, it's called FREEDOM, comes with no guarantees and includes your freedom to disagree with it.

If you desire safety above freedom, you deserve neither - (loosely) said somebody much smarter than me.

I've lived without that freedom and it was horrifying. I would never go back. I understand not everybody prefers it so that's why I am happy you have the choice to be an employee, but please do not deny me the choice to not be.


> That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great.

Ah yes. How can one forget about the great freedom of slavery, exploitation of the Chinese, back breaking labor of miners etc. etc.

> If you desire safety above freedom, you deserve neither - (loosely) said somebody much smarter than me.

That quote was in no shape, way or form about healthcare or maternity leave

> I've lived without that freedom and it was horrifying.

You've lived... without which freedom exactly?


Are you really comparing America of 1800s to the Western European states of today?!

I lived without ANY freedoms. Taken away by the (communist) government in exchange for the promise of safety, wages and lots and lots of benefits. Of course, we got neither.


> Are you really comparing America of 1800s to the Western European states of today?!

I am really replying to the statement that you made: "That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great. "

> I lived without ANY freedoms. Taken away by the (communist) government

Ah yes, because there are exactly two possible modes of living in this world: communism and corporate cronyism called FREEDOM in the US.

Meanwhile there are charity orgnizations that used to go to the poorest regions in Africa to provide free healthcare. And then they stopped doing that and started doing that in the US. Because FREEDOM.


And still people actually living in Africa don’t know how to escape faster to Europe or, yes, even USA. Because, you know, freedom. Maybe you should tell them how awful it really is and how much better they had it before.


Many places in the world being worse than the US doesn't mean that the US is the FREEDOM heaven.

Riddle me this: why would the wealthiest nation in the world needs charity orgs to provide healthcare for its citizens? Something that no other developed nation in the world does. How is that FREEDOM?


Fix the underlying problem then instead of going after private companies.


How do you imagine fixing, for example, minimum wage without "going after private companies"?


They will be providing more than minimum wage as per prop22. The real issue is that the state should provide health insurance.


There are significantly more issues than health insurance. Let me quote myself:

> with no health insurance, no maternity leave to speak of, no safety nets, no guarantees in the form of liveable minimum wages...

Many of those are "going after private companies".


Yep, some drivers and labor groups wanted to unionize drivers. That was the end goal.




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