The reason for this is that historically most civilizations, or phases of civilizations have lacked two things. One is the strong, persistent social institutions needed to maintain the momentum of scientific progress. The other is a solid socialised understanding of scientific methods. To maintain consistent scientific and engineering development you need both, and possibly a third in the from of the printing press, otherwise advances are at the whim of individual people, their influence and attitude to methods.
Solid rational investigative techniques go back a very long way. Even the Romans had a good understanding of how to prove a theory. Galen's work on the renal system for example involving public demonstrations on live pigs. The Antikethyra mechanism shows how advanced engineering could be in the Greek world at the time. The problem was there was no institutionalisation and formalisation of these methods to enable their systematic and sustained application, so they melted away when the thinkers and artisans, or small groups of them that made these advances died or disbanded. In the Arab world yes there were universities and medical schools, but these were the personal projects of particular rulers and their favourites that lasted a while and then melted away.
There was nothing wrong with the Arab world, or ancient China, or India. It's just that the several necessary ingredients for sustained progress in science happened to come together in Europe first.
And the Mongols destroyed the Islamic empire. All that's in the past, and it feels good to live in the imagined glory of the past - but what's the excuse today for us indians when our idiot Prime Minister Narendra Modi claims that ancient India had nuclear weapons, aeroplanes and spacecraft and did inter-species head transplant by citing religious mythology as the proof for it? Or when his government wants to promote Astrology as Science today??
Reducing the problems to one person/party is disingenuous. In recent history we have data on all major political parties and their work on improving the scientific ecosystem. The problem is much deeper than one person.
Yes exactly, there was just too much social, economic and political volatility that far back to maintain a sustained pace of scientific development. Frankly the pace of advancement was very slow, so more value was placed on understanding and propagating existing knowledge rather than valuing the processes for developing and testing new methods.
It was really the switch over to valuing processes and methods, rather than facts and knowledge, that turbo-charged the rate of development.
More than all of this - the key is political leaders. Visionary political leaders make or break their country or end civilizations. Both India and America are witnessing this currently with their respective elected right-wing "leaders" in Narendra Modi and Donald Trump.
In India Astrology is now being treated as a Science and the Modi government is considering allowing alternate medicine (Ayurveda / Homeopathy / Unani) "doctors" to prescribe allopathic medicines.
This when India's first Prime Minister sought to promote "scientific temper" in independent India:
> "[What is needed] is the scientific approach, the adventurous and yet critical temper of science, the search for truth and new knowledge, the refusal to accept anything without testing and trial, the capacity to change previous conclusions in the face of new evidence, the reliance on observed fact and not on pre-conceived theory, the hard discipline of the mind—all this is necessary, not merely for the application of science but for life itself and the solution of its many problems." —Jawaharlal Nehru (1946) The Discovery of India
And the constitution of India itself emphasises:
> [It shall be the duty of every citizen of India] To develop scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform.
Political leaders are the key, and the answer to why science and culture flourish and die in any civilization. The west will experience this too.
It's not a recently enacted law - propagating it as scientific was set in force in 2001 by the then BJP HRD Minister Murli Manohar Joshi, who asked the UGC (by then filled with RSS religious fundamentalists) to fund BSc and MSc courses in Astrology. It was challenged legally but the courts refused to overturn the decision of the UGC. It was challenged again in courts in 2011, but it did not succeed.
There is a huge difference between saying a guy from BJP asked some committee to fund Astrology courses and saying that in India Astrology is now being treated as a Science.
I am sure you wont get it as it seems from your posting history that you are extremely biased or worse you are a blogger from a hired private blog network
> BJP asked some committee to fund Astrology courses
Yes, fund Astrology courses and offer it as SCIENCE degrees - that's BSc and MSc degrees on something that is not even a psedu science but total bullshit. What an incredible waste of money and resources! Anf why - because these religious fundamentalists think of it as a "Science" and want to give it some legitimacy.
> I am sure you wont get it as it seems from your posting history that you are extremely biased
Oh yes. I openly admit that I am no admirer of the religious fundamentalists currently in power and ruling my country. Their retrograde ideology is not spreading discontent and polarising communities, they are also slowly destroying India's economy.
Of course rulers can have a huge influence, but I think what differentiates the modern scientific enterprise from past models is that it's not dependent on the whims of individual rulers. It just has so much established momentum and support.
Modi may well promote nonsense, but the institutions of higher education and science in India still exist and have enough prestige and social and economic momentum that I believe they will continue to sustain themselves. Similarly Trump continues to talk utter nonsense about Coronavirus, and even knowingly misled his followers throughout the first 6 months of the outbreak, but still has Dr. Fauci leading the medical response because even Trump can't completely sideline the scientific community.
Oh ok, I understand your point now - you view the scientific establishment as an institution too, similar to the other independent democratic institutions like the legislature, executive, judiciary etc.
I agree that as long as the institution is strong, it will prevail. But I don't agree with you that they can prevail independent of the political leaders in charge.
Perhaps our differing preception is because even though Trump seems to have a similiar retrogade and dictatorial mentality like Modi, western institutions - both democratic and scientific - seem to have withstood an attack on it by the Trump administration. But in India they have been nearly subjugated in the last 20 years or so.
In fact, it was the University Grants Commission - one of the highest body in India that decides on education - then filled with religious fundamentalists, that proposed the funding of BSc and MSc courses in Astrology and treating is as Science, on the urging of the right-wing government in power in 2001.
The period from 1947-2014 didn't really lead to major improvements in scientific ecosystems, apart from creation of few educational institutes (IITs, IISc). The left-wing governments weren't much better. The problem is much deeper than a simplistic left-wing vs right-wing debate.
> The period from 1947-2014 didn't really lead to major improvements in scientific ecosystems, apart from creation of few educational institutes (IITs, IISc).
And I guess institutions like:
Defence Research and Development Organisations (DRDO),
Indian Space Research Organisation,
Baba Atomic Resarch Centre, Hindustan Aeronautical Limited,
Defence Research and Development Laboratories,
Ordnance Factory Board
Council of Scientific and Industrial Research,
Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research,
Central Institute for Cotton Research,
Central Institute of Medicinal and Aromatic Plants,
Central Research Institute for Dryland Agriculture,
Central Sheep and Wool Research Institute,
Central Soil Salinity Research Institute,
Centre for Sustainable Agriculture,
Indian Agricultural Research Institute,
Indian Institute of Food Processing Technology,
Indian Institute of Horticultural Research,
Indian Institute of Millets Research,
Indian Institute of Natural Resins and Gums,
Indian Institute of Plantation Management,
Indian Institute of Soil Science,
National Academy of Agricultural Research Management,
National Academy of Agricultural Sciences,
National Dairy Research Institute,
National Sugar Institute,
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute,
Tamil Nadu Rice Research Institute,
Central Institute of Indian Languages,
All India Institute of Hygiene and Public Health,
Sree Chitra Tirunal Institute for Medical Sciences and Technology,
National Centre for Disease Control,
National Institute for Research in Reproductive Health,,
National Institute for Research in Tuberculosis,
National Institute of Biomedical Genomics,
National Institute of Cholera and Enteric Diseases,
National Institute of Epidemiology,
National Institute of Immunology, India,
National Institute of Malaria Research,
National Institute of Mental Health and Neurosciences,
National Institute of Virology,
National Research Institute for Panchakarma,
National Tuberculosis Institute,
Neurobiology Research Centre,
Homi Bhabha Cancer Hospital & Research Centre,
Indian Veterinary Research Institute,
Advanced Research Centre for Bamboo and Rattan,
Agumbe Rainforest Research Station,
Arid Forest Research Institute,
Jawaharlal Nehru Tropical Botanic Garden and Research Institute,
Rain Forest Research Institute,
Tropical Forest Research Institute,
Himalayan Forest Research Institute,
Centre for Forest Based Livelihood and Extension,
Centre for Forestry Research and Human Resource Development,
Centre for Social Forestry and Eco-Rehabilitation,
Indian Council of Forestry Research and Education,
Indian Council of Historical Research,
Indian Council of Social Science Research,
Indian Diamond Institute,
Indian Initiative in Gravitational-wave Observations,
Indian Institute of Science,
Indian Institute of Sindhology,
Indian Social Institute,
Indian Social Institute, Bangalore,
National Academy of Sciences, India,
National Brain Research Centre,
National Centre for Cell Science,
National Centre for Polar and Ocean Research,
National Institute of Ayurveda,
National Institute of Hydrology,
National Institute of Science Education and Research,
National Institutes of Pharmaceutical Education and Research,
Research Design and Standards Organisation,
Xavier Institute of Social Service
emerged after 2014?? /s India didn't even have the technology to manufacture a safety pin when the British left India. Today India is one of the few countries in the world that has mastered medical, nuclear, space, missile, defence and agricultural sciences to be among the few countries that is self-sufficient in these areas. And that is because of the scientific temperement of the past indian government.
You are right. Starting with almost nothing, the first Indian governments had a lot of scope for development. The list of institutions has had some effect on the society, and to the areas around them mainly in South India. Some of the previous governments really led to improvement (specially during Congress' Indira Gandhi's time and BJP's Atal Bihari Vajpayee's time) in certain areas.
But that is not enough. Science is still not a viable career for large percentage of the population, most of the technologies (specially commercial) are still imported, there aren't many companies in the private sector which are innovating.
Unfortunately none of the current political leadership across political parties give any confidence in this area. The current ruling party wants to live in the glory of the past and give comments about imaginary times. The main opposition party doesn't even try to promise anything better. Since Indira Gandhi, none in Congress have even tried to include science in the election manifesto in any major way. The previous UPA government was a big let down in this area. The other marginal national parties and regional parties are even worse. They don't even pretend to improve anything in this area.
> In India Astrology is now being treated as a Science and the Modi government is considering allowing alternate medicine (Ayurveda / Homeopathy / Unani) "doctors" to prescribe allopathic medicines.
I have had Astrologers visit my house when Modi was no where around in the national political scene. And exploring alternative medicine is hardly specific to Modi government. Even WHO is doing it:
Though I agree that pseudo-science like Homeopathy should not be promoted in any way and ancient medical knowledge like Ayurveda should be strictly regulated and rigorously tested.
> I have had Astrologers visit my house when Modi was no where around in the national political scene.
But did you treat these astrologers as scientists? The problem is not with astrology existing as it does in some form or the other in every country - the problem is in trying to promote it and give it some legitimacy by declaring it as a science!
That is what the religious fundamentalists in power are doing in India because they associate their form of astrology with their religion. If it is treated as science, would you like space launches or missile tests, for examples, to be decided based on the "auspicious" time figured through the "science" of astrology, even if the atmospheric conditions or not suitable for the launch at this time?
Solid rational investigative techniques go back a very long way. Even the Romans had a good understanding of how to prove a theory. Galen's work on the renal system for example involving public demonstrations on live pigs. The Antikethyra mechanism shows how advanced engineering could be in the Greek world at the time. The problem was there was no institutionalisation and formalisation of these methods to enable their systematic and sustained application, so they melted away when the thinkers and artisans, or small groups of them that made these advances died or disbanded. In the Arab world yes there were universities and medical schools, but these were the personal projects of particular rulers and their favourites that lasted a while and then melted away.
There was nothing wrong with the Arab world, or ancient China, or India. It's just that the several necessary ingredients for sustained progress in science happened to come together in Europe first.