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Cellmate: Male chastity gadget hack could lock users in (bbc.com)
216 points by pbhowmic on Oct 6, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 153 comments



This thing has been an absolute nightmare since it was released 18 months ago. I've had a few people contact me (note: https://buttplug.io (NSFW) is my project, I get contacted about stuff like this all the time, someday I will write a book about various support stories) with their hardware stuck on.

There have been multiple security issues reported, and the company really seems to have no clue how to deal with the tech. Not only that, they're doubling down on their production of unsafe equipment, including their newest toy (Link NSFW): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001341771957.html


Smart consumers won't buy a $10 memory card on Ali because it's likely to be a destructive fake, but people will buy Internet-controlled electronics for their favorite nether regions of their bodies. Amazing. I guess that's part of the thrill.


It's more about a lack of available reputational signals. There's little brand awareness and few people are willing to review such intimate products. With electronics you can go by manufacturer if nothing else, intimate products often don't even have branding.


You can't even trust hardware manufacturers to get audio drivers right, why would you ever trust them with something like this?


the people buying these things mostly do not browse HN and have no idea what audio drivers are.


What would a sufficient reputational signal be?

The internet of things doesn't have any of the stigma that this has; and I still wouldn't trust it to run lightbulb.

With something that attaches to your body 24/7, it sounds like you would want something on the order of medical grade assurances because, if something goes wrong, it has the potential to cause medical problems.


On top of this, people don't usually shop around much for the best product when it comes to intimate devices. A lot of it is even specifically marketed toward impulse buys.


And even some of the more reputable brands have a distinct hint of skeeziness to their branding. “Fun Factory” and “The Pleasure Chest” both sound super sketch, despite both being well respected companies with a good track record.


>I guess that's part of the thrill.

Yeah looking forward to the day where passing unit tests results in a Neuralink-induced orgasm


We've got some azure pipelines tasks on buttplug.io in the works that may facilitate this.


Godforbid there is accidental race scenario


I mean, if it has a webhook, you can probably fire it on success or failure from Jenkins...


Until a sizeable chunk of the world's workforce is erotically DDOS'd into blissful oblivion.

Mmm cyberpunk.


For as cheesy as 90's sci-fi was, Demolition Man was surprisingly prescient about little things like this. Physical coitus becomes a disgusting act akin to taking a shit, so it becomes a virtual shared experience that creates the feelings between two relative strangers without the various risks.


My only experience with Aliexpress was that I ordered $30 rubber feet replacements for my laptop, and they sent me a postcard with an advertisement for a fitness band written in German. When I complained with them, they told me to check the mailbox again and went silent. Got a refund eventually, but I can imagine fraud is a standard operating procedure there.


I think you lucked out or maybe didn't pay enough attention to the seller reputation. I probably ordered three dozen items from AE, ranging from cents to 600 euros, only thing not making it was a 10 dollar cable during the peak of the Spring covid wave in Europe, when logistics was seriously disrupted. Got my money back. I suspect it was lost, as tracking showed it strolling across the Far East back and forth.

And items were not up to spec sometimes, but also got my money back or the seller sent a replacement.


A friend I know tells me that they ordered a cheap knock off magic wand vibrator off eBay and after 3 months it never showed so they went to a sex shop and paid 200$ for the real deal. The fake one finally arrives couple weeks later but comparing them the fake one is just as strong but also has added features like different pulsations and more speed control. The 184$ difference will easily sway people to buy such products.


There's a bit of a....risk profile difference between a vib and a chastity device.


If the vib plugs into the wall as a most-popular one in that price range does, that’s definitely still a true statement.


Even without electricity, there's plenty of horror stories about sex toys--particularly dildos--made with unsafe materials. Some materials can cause allergic reactions, others are carcinogenic.


The article says they sold 40,000 of these things


Being aware of specific marketplace corruption isn't the same as being smart, and vice versa. And there's no reason to believe that the set of people buying these devices is the same as the set of people not buying memory cards.


Is it the consumer buying them, or retailers/drop-shippers buying them to resell?


the article notes that it's 40k registered users as per the api.


> someday I will write a book

That would make a great coffee-table book. Some image on one page and a short narrative on the opposing page.


Wow that product looks extremely dangerous! Sharp corners, pinch points, and a lock? Extremely irresponsible to manufacture that. I’m not sure if y’all appreciate how fragile that area is and the potential for serious injury from something like this.


Yeah, things like this used to be utilized as torture devices - with the apt name of the Pear of Anguish.


Reminds me of my visit to the Museum of Torture in Italy. Quasi-NSFW-ish but nothing gory, still, proceed with caution if you are squeamish.

http://www.torturemuseum.it/en/


I went there with my girlfriend about 5 years ago. We still laugh that it made us feel a bit unwell and had to leave.

Would still recommend.


Buttplug.io is officially my new favourite domain name.


Even the TLD choice is apropos.


This is a case where the right TLD makes all the difference. If it were .biz, no one in their right mind is going to click that. Org must have already been taken.


Now now, we are surely spoiled for choice these days [1]. A savvy operator could easily have snagged buttplug.holdings. Or even my personal favorite -- buttplug.fishing.

[1] https://www.hover.com/domains/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=buttp...


My personal buttplug domain collection includes:

http://buttplug.engineer - My personal website

http://butt.engineering - My company website (http://nonpolynomial.com)

buttplug.zone/games/cam/online/tech/work/app - Going to point to various parts of my Intiface product line at some point. Games should probably be pointed at https://intiface.com/ghr for now.


> http://buttplug.engineer

Fantastic domain name. Too bad it's too long for a license plate :-)


No buttpl.ug?


Ugandan registry holds that one. :(


Dare I ask why?


Hold on, I need to go find a very smart-looking book to be holding now just in case I die laughing at buttplug.loans


Aww thanks. :D


primo.af is pretty good, too.


> link

“According to local laws and regulations, this item could not be shown.”

Dare I ask?


It's a Reverse-Ratcheting Self-Sealing Stem Bolt.

You won't find a better one in the quadrant!


Reminiscent of the medieval pear of anguish.


For those that are intrigued, here is image of the device (nothing graphic). It’s only partially open...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads...


I will assert that whether or not an image is graphic is a matter of imagination.


Where are you that you're having your Internet censored?


aliexpress does that for anything on mobile that it thinks is sex related, which is occasionally annoying when it gets something wrong, but is definitely not wrong in this situation.


I can access that link just fine on mobile. You probably live in a more prude part of the world if you can't access that link on mobile.


I’m in Berlin. The spinny billboards arrive here advertise brothels, the fly posters say “Bleib Ruhig und Dildos benutzen” and “There is no I in anal”, and one of the largest hotels has a neon sculpture of Leda and the Swan, at least two stories tall, out front.


A german thing that made our papers was when the prostitute equivalent of the IEEE announced their new industry-wide covid safety measures, and invited local politicians to "check them out personally."

(Germans, on the other hand, marvel that our sex shows habitually offer discounts for students and seniors.)


Not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean that you can't access the link either and that living in a more prude country therefore is not a relevant factor here?


> living in a more prude country

I think they're trying to say that given there's open advertising of various sex related things, that Germany isn't exactly prudish.


Yes I understood that. I am asking what he's trying to say by mentioning that. If I were to read between the lines it'd mean that a more prude culture is not a factor because he's in Germany and he gets a warning or can't access the link on mobile. He didn't specifically write that however and I'm therefore trying to clear up the ambiguity.


A previous poster had suggested he lived in a prudish country where sexual content is censored on the internet. He said he was in Germany, and gave examples of the lack of prudishness there (in case someone didn't know what Germany is like).

The implication is that Germany is an unlikely place for that kind of censorship.


Right, thanks. Sometimes the HN format isn't exactly conducive to easily see who wrote what in reply to who if there is not a direct relationship. My original assertion regarding the prudishness of the culture being a driving factor was not correct.


Just to confirm, this interpretation is correct.


In the UK, the AliExpress mobile site gets me to click "Yes, I am over 18" before letting me open it.


I am in Czechia, the country with second most pornstars per 10 million inhabitants. Park your car on a street near the city centre and a prostitute will approach within a few minutes. There are huge and well known strip clubs and sex hotels. And there definitely are not any laws that would force Aliexpress to this.


Buttplug that expands outwards, and has bluetooth.


Here's an archived version: https://archive.is/7JKCH


That thing is horrific. It looks so dangerous and how would one ever remove it when it’s locked in someone’s body and can’t be unlocked?


You don't hear this much because people don't want to admit it but its almost always possible to remove these things with a bit of effort and maybe some lube.


The mind boggles at the possibilities.


while body parts shrink after reading "lock and clamp"


Ok that made my day 'buttplug.io' what a hilarious name!! Thanks


Nightmare fuel.


> stuff like this

Do tell!


I didn't see what type of battery it has, but imagine having a non-solid state lithium based battery locked to a part of your body - anywhere. That type of device failing in an epic way with flames and no way to remove it in time - just seems like that's a latent headline just awaiting. Even worse - most people would panic and chuck water upon it. Wondering what is the safest thing to put upon a lithium based fire household McGyver wise and more go to would be flour (layer coating to starve oxygen and non conductive), or some aerosol can I can turn upside down and blast with cold non flammable gas.

Though like most as a rule of thumb - I try not to get that attached to my gadget addiction.


Almost all aerosol cans use a flammable gas (they are cheap, have a high expansion ratio, and are low pressure liquids). Flour, sugar and other powders found in the kitchen can actually be explosive if they are mixed with air correctly (eg: when tossed onto a flame).

Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is probably the only improvised item in the kitchen that you should use to put out fires. A kitchen should have a fire extinguisher that is BC or ABC that would be best for the first attempt at putting out the fire.

Even though water is not ideal, if you have a large source of it (eg: Pool, lake, firehose, etc), it will be your best option as it can cool faster than a small battery can generate heat. A garden hose or bathtub faucet might be able to supply enough water if the battery is relatively small.


Really, a kitchen should also have a type K fire extinguisher which isolates burning oil from air to prevent reignition (burning oil extinguished with an ABC dry chemical fire extinguisher is likely to reignite on its own). Unfortunately they seem rare in home kitchens, likely just due to a lack of awareness as they really aren't that expensive at the home improvement store.

Glass fiber blankets are also a good choice for kitchen fires but once again not very common in homes.


Fire extinguishers require regular inspections/refills that, I fear, many home users won’t do.

Because of that, I think the blanket, combined with a fire alarm (also requires inspections/maintenance, but will annoy you so much that you will replace the battery regularly) is the best option for kitchens.


> Fire extinguishers require regular inspections/refills that, I fear, many home users won’t do.

One of my habits is to put inspection dates for things like fire extinguishers, fire alarm batteries, emergency water, etc. into my calendar.

It's basically a quick check every quarter, with a full-on inspection during spring cleaning. Doesn't take much time, and gives me a lot of peace-of-mind that my emergency stuff is actually going to work when I need it.

On that note, something that I also don't see people doing, is making sure they know how to use their equipment for its intended task. I made it a point to try an extinguisher on a tiny fire in a safe setting, just to make sure I understood how it worked.

Ditto for always taking the stairs down whenever I leave a new hotel room. I get a little more exercise, and if there's a fire, I've already "escaped" once.

Pro tip: do not attempt to apply this advice while flying. They don't even let you keep the slide!


For (low voltage) lithium-ion batteries, water is the correct extinguishing agent. The amount of metallic lithium contained inside is minimal.

Water is easily available, safe, and most importantly, it cools the battery (important if it has multiple cells). Powder could insulate it, causing the other cells to get overheated from the burning one and join the party.


Baking soda or salt is preferable for putting out a fire. Or sand or kitty litter. Water as a last resort. Flour and baking power can be flammable


Flour is a very very bad fire retardant! It would do the opposite.


Do not put flour on fires. It’s practically explosive.


A small solid state rocket engine that is physically activated by thermal failure of the battery could be a safety feature - "In case of fire point posterior to building exterior".


smothering lithium ion battery fires doesn't work: the reaction is self-sustaining and will continue to generate heat even without oxygen (I've seen this happen: the effect is similar to trick birthday cake candles where the flames may die down but reignite again). Water is actually one of the better options, because it removes heat from the system.


I thought baking soda was the best, I keep lots of that around the house for putting out other fires.


LiFePO4 chemistry is quite safe.


An idea for William Gibsons next novel .. maybe titled Flaming neuro-romancer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


While the headline certainly is having a device like this needing to be ground open the other privacy concerns are quite possibly worse.

Being able to track both the name of who bought it and the location of someone using a device like this has got to be a near classic example of private information that hurts no one but could severely damage a person if it got out.


THIS!

The headline is about them getting locked on, because that's funny, but the buried lead is actually this:

> The security researchers said they discovered a way to fool the server into disclosing the registered name of each device owner, among other personal details, as well as the co-ordinates of every location from where the app had been used.

That's some really sensitive info, with the potential to destroy some lives, or be used as blackmail material.


I wish society were more sex-positive, stopped considering matters of sexuality or sexual activity to be so controversial, and stopped responding to them with such moral outrage to the point that your personal sexual activity could be considered something blackmail-worthy!

(I think this is a bigger problem in America than Europe.)

In either case, indeed, we need privacy (because other countries have terrible persecution around matters of mere sexuality) and as much maturity as we can muster when discussing it. I'm so proud of how mature this comment section is. Not a single giggling sexual joke in sight - at least here up at the top. Other sites would be riddled with it, with nothing serious discussed.


Look at the map, one of the sample users is in Qatar!

This could end way really, really badly; it is even more concerning after reading about the recent grinder fiasco with the Egyptian government.


Brings whole new meaning to vendor lock-in


>The cage wirelessly connects to a smartphone via a Bluetooth signal, which is used to trigger the device's lock-and-clamp mechanism.

>But to achieve this, the software relies on sending commands to a computer server used by the manufacturer.

Wow...huh...as far as security holes go, that's not even an open back door, you might as well not even have a wall....

>Pen Test Partners believe about 40,000 devices have been sold based on the number of IDs that have been granted by its Guangdong-based creator.

So ~40000 people are having commands for their Bluetooth powered chastity belt sent to and from a server in China..

I personally can't think of any company I'd feel comfortable having something like that being handled remotely, let alone some mystery company in China...


Penetration Testers Pwn Penetration Prevention Product, Preventing Possibly Prevalent Penetration Prevention Problems.


You have a bright future as a copy editor at The Register.


Guangdong Dong Lock Hack: Prick Release Fixed in Release.


Gold, Gold!


Perhaps Protecting Penitent Persona.


I was told years ago:

Avoid alliteration, always.


... pen pensive plaint about it


Just because you CAN connect something to the internet doesn't mean that you SHOULD


If this actually worked well and was designed by a very security and privacy respecting company than it would actually be pretty neat. Long distance sex toys are popular for a reason.


Well there are many reasons for this specific instance of this being internet connected


Teledildonics is an inherently social technology. It's the future of facebook (buttbook?)

They need a secure protocol though. Something anonymous and hard to break like a blockchain or sth better.

The perpetuation of our species is at stake.


I imagine that this would actually be a selling point for some buyers


I have a feeling like the Lock Picking Lawyer would have no problem here.


He already opened a simpler model. With a piece of condom wrapper, naturally. https://youtu.be/1uEYveSssok


Someone please send him one


Open the pod bay doors, HAL


What am I supposed to tell my kids when I wake them up laughing at this? Where do I even start? I'd have to put the movie on and hope they fell asleep.


Having the best laugh of the week. Thank you kind stranger


I’ve stared at the product image for a couple of minutes now. I’m none the wiser on how it works. Heyho.


I think the jewels hang in between the bar and the sheath...


Yeah, but then what?


So looking at it it's 2 parts that get locked together. A ring part that you place the shaft and balls through. Then the container that when placed over the shaft and locked to the ring leaves a gap the balls can no longer get through. Thus it is attached until the lock is released and the ring and container are separated again.

It's a chastity device so the point is that when it's on you can't actually do anything sexual with the contained bits (or maybe it's painful if aroused and some get off on that). The secondary sexual goals are any emotional arousal from fear/trust/control/submission/etc.


Your first paragraph is exactly correct, on the second one, its not meant to be painful. A decent approximation of what it feels like is if you squeeze your thumb with your other hand. It doesn't actually hurt your thumb but you feel the pressure.


Ah gotcha. So it's the act of being restrained that provides the gratification, and being under someone else's control.


I must admit I'd far rather people get their restraint jollies with devices like this than by electing politicians to provide fear/trust/control/submission for all.


Yes. It's a form of sexual submission. It also plays strongly on the aspect of delayed gratification. Instead of orgasming and the chemical 'release' effect that entails, you are kept 'on edge' and, well, horny. The eventual (extreme lifestyle practitioners of this fetish excluded) orgasm tends to be much, much more intense.


We’re gonna need a napkin doodle...


Internet of Dongs (Teledildonics security site, probably NSFW) has an article [0] detailing their interaction with reporting vulnerabilities to the company.

[0]: https://internetofdon.gs/qiui-chastity-cage/


Digital Liberty! It's about how to protect your bits.

Not just about intellectual property any more.


Especially with that pear thing posted above (resembling a medieval torture device), this creates a whole new class of ransomware.


Man, I can see both sides of the Amazon Echo argument but I can’t imagine putting a Chinese IoT gadget on my Johnson.


There's another aspect that bothers me: given how many IoT manufacturers tend to shut down their servers after a while, what's going to happen the day the app cannot communicate with the gizmo in question?

Will every user remain locked for good?


It's always important to build your software such that it fails safe. Now, people may disagree what the definition of failing safe is in this case :)


Like a nuclear sub. If they can’t pick up bbc world service for a day, assume the world is over and proceed accordingly.


I think I'll pass, thanks


Given the name, I thought this was being used on prisoners. These devices terrify me, from a security perspective, and from a physical safety perspective. Kudos to whoever is brave enough to use one I suppose.


"The internet-linked sheath has no manual override"


We'll inevitably see similar headlines about internet-connected, autonomous-capable automobiles.

It's only a matter of time given the trajectory we seem to be on, and I fear the consequences will be a whole lot worse than some embarrassing fire department visits involving bolt cutters.


People have already hacked tesla's APIs allowing them to see the location and details of random users.


Someone once told me that these cock cage devices are more dangerous than they seem.

Some of these fetishists wear them for weeks or months so that they arent able to get a full erection for a long period of time. It's all fun and games until they finally take it off and realize it's not the same. It turns out if you don't use it, you lose it.


That sounds fairly urban legendy, though it can depend on the user and their anatomy, of course.

I know many people who've used or worked with these devices for years and that has not been the case for them.

That said, due to the types of cage mechanics, weight and makeup of different cage materials, etc, there is definitely the possibility of some physical issues, including some nerve issues. It usually just things like skin irritations and discomfort though.

These days, there are a LOT of knockoffs of the major brands (like the Holy Trainer series) that are made with seriously questionable materials that don't have temperature tolerance/reforming, are missing edge filleting, etc. So if you do decide to engage in this sort of play, do your homework, read reviews, talk to communities, and don't order some random cheap thing off AliExpress.


The penis also lacks muscles (which do atrophy with lack of use). The more reputable reports from long-term wearers suggest that the plumbing still works even with near constant wear, provided that care is taken to ejaculate once in a while (e.g., monthly).

Because the purpose of male chastity devices is to prevent erections and orgasms, long-term wearers (who are a minority compared to the amount of folk who use such as device as a form of (prolonged) foreplay or as part of an erotic roleplaying scenario) may achieve such an ejaculation by means of a prostate massage (i.e., 'milking' him). The health goal here is mainly to keep the prostate healthy though.

Chafing, pinching, skin irritations; those are common health related issues though.

> and don't order some random cheap thing off AliExpress.

Or do, just to explore the different models cheaply, but treat them as novelty items. And yes, do read up on reviews, or ask in online communities. This is, quite emphatically, not a one-size-fits-all item.


All the info I can find suggests this is made up. People want to believe its true which perpetuates the myth.


I’d be more worried about blood clots, but what do I know?


Dremel job for a freelance hardware hacker :-)


I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario in which the user of such a device would not be in an abusive situation. Any examples?


orgasm control / BDSM. It’s a fetish.


I would go so far as to say that this likely isn't used in abusive situations at all.


wait, how does that work!?


You stick your dick and balls in to it and join the ring with the shaft part which then locks using a servo motor and can't (easily) be removed without the app sending the unlock command.


They’ve enabled dick Ransomware. Amazing!


Noah, get the boat


[flagged]


Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...


[flagged]


Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.


I mean, this chastity thing is weird to me too, but "serves them right?" Assuming consent, I feel the answer to badly implemented sex gear should be well-implemented sex gear, not no sex gear at all.

"What have we come to as a species" is an expression of shock better saved for things like our species' propensity to torture and kill unwilling victims. That's fucked up.


[flagged]


>Your fitness is literally measured by your ability to reproduce...

Choosing to use this device for sexual pleasure does not mean that they are incapable of reproducing. It also doesn't mean that they don't want to reproduce at all. These types of toys are also not necessarily limited to single, childless people - couples with children almost certainly employ these devices as well.

>... intended for somebody else to control (weird)...

Just because something is someone's kink, but it's not your kink, doesn't make it weird. People are into what they're into. Someone controlling someone else in the bedroom is actually an incredibly common scenario, and chastity for both genders is found quite often in the BDSM scene especially in dom/sub play.

Your lack of understanding on this subject - which is OK - is coming off as kink-shaming. Just keep that in mind when you ask yourself why you're being downvoted.


> These types of toys are also not necessarily limited to single, childless people

In this particular case it’s useless to single people; the whole idea is to have someone else controlling it.


that's a bad metric. If our ancient ancestors sat on a rock staring at a flickering rectangle for 8 hours a day they'd be eaten by tigers, but we're doing OK.


Though, even in the being-eaten-by-a-tiger era, we apparently had sex toys; examples of dildos from 30,000 years ago, and maybe longer, have been found.


Optimising for evolutionary fitness is about as productive as moving things downstairs to help gravity.


Genital mutilation is intrinsic to who we are.


Far enough that while people with an active sex life can use all sort of weird tools to engage in their fetishes, other [people] can try to justify their knee-jerk reactions by wanking about their evolutionary fitness.


I'll admit, this specific device has some safety concerns, but there are plenty of safe chastity devices out there that couples use regularly spice up their sex life.

Your comments here reflect some substantial sexual repression on your part. The issue here isn't that people are playing with sex toys. The issue here is that the sex toys have safety failings.


[flagged]


No not at all. Its marketed at the bdsm/kink community. I have seen the product mentioned a lot in IM groups over the last few months.


That would be a pretty severe human rights violation




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