And yet, all the studies of people with children show that they make you less happy, while they are around, although more happy later in later, presumably once they have moved out. Years of relief built up I guess (just kidding, more likely the benefits of having an extended close family when you are older).

Speaking for myself, I know that I would hate to have my freedom taken away by having children. I also know that my sister, who has a four year old and a one year old, has been miserable and exhausted for much of the last four years.

I think there's a difference between happiness and fulfillment. Parenthood unlocks a new level of feelings I never experienced before.

I cannot accurately describe the joy that fatherhood brings me.... despite the reduced sleep and increased stress.

By a magnitude of 10x, Fatherhood has surpassed anything i have experienced prior.

I'm curious about these studies, how they measure happiness, and the possible confounding factors. I was really happy before kid (singular), and I'm still really happy. Happier, I think, then I would have been otherwise? I don't really know how to measure that.

As a not-yet-made-it startup guy it definitely feels like playing on "expert mode". But with a supportive partner and some careful life choices, it feels pretty good. It helps that my cofounder has a kid almost the same age as mine, and we've been going through this together.

Happiness is overrated. Like picking a food to eat because it's sweeter.

If you could choose between a future where your happiness doubled but one of your loved ones died, or the unadjusted future, which would you prefer?

Moral framings like this are pointless. That's a scenario that's never going to happen, so why worry about it? Instead, we have a real question to ask:

Which of these would you choose?

A. Have children and be less happy, more stressed, and have less money and less free time for your a ~25 year stretch somewhere between ages 20 and 60.

B. Don't have children, be less happy, poorer, much busier, and more stressed during those years, but potentially more happy in your old age.

The point is the realization that happiness is not the most essential thing in thing. My hypothetical is meant to be similar to the choice between two futures, one, where you have one more loved one and maybe less happiness, and the other where you have one fewer loved one and maybe more happiness - i.e the choice to have a child or not.

Happiness is a kind of short term thing. Life has better things to offer in my view.

>If you could choose between a future where your happiness doubled but one of your loved ones died, or the unadjusted future, which would you prefer?

You'd really have to hate your loved ones for that first option to be viable.

Being a parent with two small kids in a foreign country and no family support (plus, you know, the usual global pandemic), it has definitely been the worse experience of my life. My wife doesn't work, money is not a problem but the lack of sleep and freedom to do a lot of things is hard to swallow.

Nature plays a big role in it: I really felt like having kids (which surprised me) and I sure will do everything I can to protect them, but my life is a constant fight with depression.

There is probably the opposite mechanism at play: having invested years of pain in them, you value your kids the more time passes.

I'm sure things will improve once they're 4-5 and they're a bit better behaved / we can start sleeping again / we can start having some time for ourselves as well.