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The problem with the lisp community was not that it contained people like this and Erik Naggum, but that they were celebrated. We all have flaws, which is no shame, provided we know they're flaws.

Maybe lisp's expressivity confers an advantage, but like a smelly bum shouting alcoholic abuse at passersby with secret superpowers, you have to wonder if it's worth it. Some people think the greatest strength of homo sapiens is our intelligence - but history suggests that it is our ability to cooperate (to share insights, build on them and to specialize) that is our real talent - our collective intelligence. Lisp's community celebrates individual, non-collective intelligence; people re-implement work themselves rather than reuse others' work.

It's not just the "community" though, there are also technical factors: the purpose of much of Java's "ceremony" is to facilitate re-use, especially in larger projects. Lisp's prototyping strengths are reuse weaknesses - a natural trade-off.

I like esr's point that lisp gives you additional perspectives in other languages - though a mathematical approach, which lisp models in some ways, gives this more strongly IHMO.

EDIT I invite rebuttal of the specific points raised in this comment.




Why does every discussion even remotely related to lisp have to end with someone saying "the problem with the lisp community was..."?


Uh, you understand that Shivers was joking, no?


The problem with the [non-lisp language] community is that they don't have a sense of humor.


FWIW, I didn't think so at first. After reading a few of more of Shivers' writings linked here I get it, but initially it comes off as crazy.


Joking about one's self is not necessarily self-deprecation. You can exaggerate things for humorous effect in a way that's only partially deprecating, or even not at all. Without knowing the author, it may be hard to tell.




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