> without having any of those people inconveniently present?
Actually, the very presence of the people involved can actually be counterproductive because of personal emotional investment, so it depends on circumstances.
> it's an academic exercise to those involved, not something with real impact on their lives.
A benefit of academia, even if it often fails to keep to this standard, is that it provides a setting for dispassionate discourse. And you can be sure that it has affects. If you want to see what society will look like in 20 years, look no further to what students are being taught at universities today.
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It is my general observation that what some people call "dialogue" actually amounts to surreptitious coercion. You mention having a trans person present at the table. However, if you're a psychologist and you're characterizing mental disorders like gender dysphoria, you don't invite a trans person to the table as an equal with whom you're going to come to some compromise pleasing to both (in practice, pleasing to the trans person). This is not political negotiation, it's an attempt at knowing the truth. Sadly, we've made truth a kind of "what's the narrative we can all agree on" (in practice, "that the loudest bully is willing to accept"[0]). Conversation is ultimately about trying to get to the truth. By bringing the trans person to the table as an equal and not as a patient presumes the legitimacy of trans beliefs which are precisely that which is at issue. If someone, trans or not, wishes to make arguments in favor of their position, by all means, but one's, shall we say, identity does not take the place of reasoned argument.
[0] This is what happened with the DSM and same-sex attraction. There was no reasoned debate, only political coercion and acquiescence.
The problem is that you assume there is such thing as an objective truth that can be "reached" or "discovered". That is definitely not the case for social sciences like psychology.
Using standard truth-seeking tools is in fact bad and harmful when it comes to people's identities. The ultimate goal of society should not be to seek out objective truth! It should be to minimize harm to human beings. Seeking truth is merely a means to that goal, and is powerful when it works. But it often doesn't!
> The ultimate goal of society should not be to seek out objective truth! It should be to minimize harm to human beings.
I disagree with this statement as I think objective truth is much more useful and important than minimizing harm.
I don’t think humans should be sacrificed, but I think in 1000 years objective truth in science, math, art will be more important than whether my air conditioning was always pleasantly at 74.
> You mention having a trans person present at the table. However, if you're a psychologist and you're characterizing mental disorders like gender dysphoria, you don't invite a trans person to the table as an equal with whom you're going to come to some compromise pleasing to both (in practice, pleasing to the trans person)
So you presume they're an unequal? This is exactly the problem.
> By bringing the trans person to the table as an equal and not as a patient
Your medical ethics license has been revoked for treating patients as subhumans. People were executed for that at Nuremberg.
> This is what happened with the DSM and same-sex attraction. There was no reasoned debate, only political coercion and acquiescence.
Are you arguing that the DSM ending characterising homosexuality as a mental disorder was wrong? Is this based on anything other than raw homophobia?
Actually, the very presence of the people involved can actually be counterproductive because of personal emotional investment, so it depends on circumstances.
> it's an academic exercise to those involved, not something with real impact on their lives.
A benefit of academia, even if it often fails to keep to this standard, is that it provides a setting for dispassionate discourse. And you can be sure that it has affects. If you want to see what society will look like in 20 years, look no further to what students are being taught at universities today.
--
It is my general observation that what some people call "dialogue" actually amounts to surreptitious coercion. You mention having a trans person present at the table. However, if you're a psychologist and you're characterizing mental disorders like gender dysphoria, you don't invite a trans person to the table as an equal with whom you're going to come to some compromise pleasing to both (in practice, pleasing to the trans person). This is not political negotiation, it's an attempt at knowing the truth. Sadly, we've made truth a kind of "what's the narrative we can all agree on" (in practice, "that the loudest bully is willing to accept"[0]). Conversation is ultimately about trying to get to the truth. By bringing the trans person to the table as an equal and not as a patient presumes the legitimacy of trans beliefs which are precisely that which is at issue. If someone, trans or not, wishes to make arguments in favor of their position, by all means, but one's, shall we say, identity does not take the place of reasoned argument.
[0] This is what happened with the DSM and same-sex attraction. There was no reasoned debate, only political coercion and acquiescence.