I had to move from NYC to Oklahoma to save SimulaVR (https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula). This was over a year ago, and I'm still here. Because of this I have saved an enormous amount of money (such that I'm still able to work full time on SimulaVR while I search for VC funding elsewhere). The other co-founder of Simula is also remote (in Germany). Since this was pre-pandemic, it's been very hard to explain to VCs who are still pattern matching on previous waves of startups.

With that said, there has also been an enormous cost to this: living somewhere besides a major city. Yes, it's true that SF/NY have horrific governance, regulatory policies, taxes, and so forth (which cause high rents). The groupthink there is also unbearable. Other than these issues, however, these cities are indisputably better in every way than anywhere else in the country. People work much harder (and on cooler projects) in these cities. There's an extravagance to them that you simply can't find anywhere else, and if you're not careful, living elsewhere can eat at you subconsciously. Reading (or listening) to books of people doing great things is a good way to combat this: your brain can't ever think that things are easy now that you're living in an easy city. You're still competing against the same odds (and in some cases: the same people) who are grinding 100 hours/week back in NYC/SF.

As long as you account for this, moving elsewhere can be a great tool to save an enormous amount of money.

Just wanted to touch on some of what you said, as I took a year to recoup from burnout in a fairly small-sized town...

Saving money, and having "time" are great, but at least for me the people in small towns live very different lives. The pace is slow and it's easy to become complacent. Compounding that is by not following the pace of life there, you're going against the grain and it will cause friction in your life.

Also, if you grew up in small towns, but haven't really been back in a while a lot of them are pretty depressing these days because of things like Amazon... Where I was most, if not all independent retailers/bookstores/etc had gone out of business. In fact, there wasn't a single book store for 90 miles despite roughly 200,000+ people living in the area. Want a tech talk? Probably not unless you're a real estate agent setting up a Wordpress ;P

If anyone is thinking about taking the jump and moving back home, or somewhere cheaper, my one suggestion is put a hard time-limit on it "1 year." It helped keep me sane having a deadline. Glad I took the time away, but even more glad I came the fuck back.

The hollowing out of small town America by Amazon & Walmart is sad to see.

You can talk all you want about free market cheaper prices raising all boats, but it doesn't jive with profits circulating within a community vs being shipped back to shareholders.

Here but for the missed middle ground where profits were retained locally while leveraging an efficient, free market supply chain.

It is sad indeed. A lot of character, creativity, and innovation goes with going big scale with Amazon, Walmart and co.

However, thinking a little below the surface about it, it was also inevitable. If not Amazon, someone else is going to leverage the e-commerce scale and profit from it. I see it more like the transition from CDs/DVDs to streaming media. Sure, local video stores provided community, good exploring opportunity to look at movies that may not be in your bubble, kept profits locally etc. but it was inevitable when a more efficient means comes along.

With that said, small towns will be forced to innovate yet again and do things that are actually needed and profitable to thrive. Shopping is lost to the big guys already. May be there is something else that is better done locally. Coffee shops, co-working spaces, fitness clubs, skills training centers, workshops, hobby development places etc.

I get what both you and GP are saying, but isn't there some middle ground?

I was thinking of something along the same lines and was fearing pretty much the points you have raised.

However, I'm currently living in Paris, France. So in this particular situation, instead of moving to some small town in the middle of nowhere, I could move to some town in the suburbs. That would be far enough for it to be much quieter and calmer than Paris, also much cheaper, especially since I ride a motorcycle so I wouldn't have to be close to public transportation. But it would still be close enough to Paris for it to be practical to attend conferences / cultural events / whatever without spending a day on the road.

Don't arrangements like this exist in the US? Say some town 100 km or so from NY / SF that would make a terribly daily commute but would be bearable once in a while when you need to meet people / go to events?

I've been trying to find a middle ground myself, but haven't yet... I dare to dream. At least in the US, 100km doesn't generally get you a ton of meaningful savings from urban areas especially like SF or NY where their suburbs/sprawl extends for probably twice that range. Where it really gets me is on those days where you somehow just work late and lose track of time, it's 11:00 p.m. and there's literally nothing open not even a grocery store. Or you need something, but it's over three hours of driving one-way or a week via an online retailer (prime, for example, is only two days in dense urban areas).

I also live in a pretty progressive bubble here in the states that makes me particular hard to re-home somewhere. I won't live places where my tax dollars fund unfettered fuckery (like that going on in Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc).

I've been thinking maybe there are some small/mid-sized cities with somewhat busy regional airports so cheap flights in/out are possible. Long drives just wear one down after a while and start to change how one behaves, it's weird and subtle. Flights are almost always easier/faster than driving and give you some time back since you can, if you want to, do something on the plane.

Maybe other folks don't feel it as much, but all those subtle things that slow you down really add up over time. With covid altering our lives for the foreseeable future, perhaps isolation seems more reasonable or acceptable now (making it easier to just focus)... I'd say give it a try, and if you figure out a good process for it, please let me know :)

Not really no. Anywhere close enough to commute to a tech hub, is very expensive, because everyone had the same idea.

I think the same advice applies to a lot of potential moves.

If you can, AirBnB at least a month before actually making the move.

Far cheaper to do that and realize your mistake early than actually move and realize you screwed up. As an additional benefit, if it turns out that it is a place you actually want to move to, you will have a better idea of the sort of neighborhood you might like.

Is it possible that there are places in the United States which are neither the Bay Area, nor NYC, nor Oklahoma? Surely at least some residents of these places, if they exist, might in fact dispute the broad-spectrum superiority of our most culturally legible cities. Some of these hypothetical humans might even work more than 100 hours a week, perhaps even outdoors!

College campuses. The Midwest had several large (student body and size) campuses with strong engineering departments.

Will second this, college towns are excellent places to do this.

Especially large public schools within a day trip to a major city or in a non-tech city in general.

Examples- Ann arbor, Amherst, Pittsburg, College station TX, Phoenix, Champaign, Chapel hill, Madison, Boulder.

I came here to say this. College towns are my favorite places to live.

I think a big part of it is that the faculty and staff both create and demand culture more than average people. They also appreciate and support public schools and libraries.

And since academia doesn't pay well, there's less cost of living inflation than in private sector tech cities.

How would it be like to move an existing startup to e.g. Amherst?

Wouldn't it still feel like being in the countryside a bit? I'd imagine I would potentially slow down.

It's funny that of all the cities I listed you asked about Amherst, because that's the only one that I have lived in.

There are a few [3] tech startups in Amherst. Umass has a US top 10 AI/ML department [1][2], so most of these work with the world class labs there.

The town itself is wonderful, since it is basically 5 schools with a total of about 30k students, under the age of 30. So, it can be pretty happening. There is also the neighboring town on Northampton which brings in a lot of 'culture'. It isn't city life, but it isn't bad at all. Boston is 2 hrs away, which isn't too bad if you need to do weekly trips to meet investors / important people / others in the startup scene.

You can source talent by giving low-ish paid interns to the really smart CS students, and get amazing consultants by working with the profs there. Ofc, all of this only works if your work and the research/focus of the labs align. For the 'be ambitious' spirit of tech hubs, you can rely on 'overworked grad students' to lend that same kind of energy.

Although honestly, places like Ann Arbor,Champaign and Pittsburg, will probably get you better talent (UMich, UIUC, CMU) at only a marginally higher cost. Amherst is really worth it if the offerings at UMass and Boston align perfectly with your product.

[1] http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir

[2] https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch...

[3] https://www.lexalytics.com/

I'd disagree, the work that's done in college campuses, are for, well, college. Students don't have time to work on startups really, there just isn't the same commitment as when in the workforce or doing it full time.

Or perhaps I'm missing something else in this comment?

I've lived in a few countries and a many cities. Most of them would love to have the likes of a SV incubator/industry in them. And they will do almost anything to get it: grants, housing, tax credits. And nothing ever sticks. There are a few startups that found a comfortable niche in their small town or big town in small nation. But these are lifestyle companies, and little more than consulting firms. An outlier in a poppy field. A friend of mine just opened a local office in SF for a Florida based company. The talent wasn't coming to them and for what they wanted to do they had to go there.

Sacramento. Totally undervalued. No one seems to see this!

What’s so good about Sacramento?

State capital -- largest state in the US, by far; too -- plus a university nearby (UC Davis is "nearby" as in not too far, but not smack in town); California weather, and about an hour and a half drive to the bay area (traffic permitting, lol), so you could do a once a week/few times a month commute to SV-type gigs but stay remote.

Reasonable cost of living, easy access to San Francisco, reasonably healthy economy, easy access to Tahoe, access to many food options

If you have a chance I suggest reading Masters Of Doom. http://www.davidkushner.com/book/masters-of-doom/. If it's one thing it taught me is that geography is not an issue when building masterful apps. The id team moved from Shreveport, LA to Madison, WI to Mesquite, TX. All the while they were gathering talent, ideas from all around the country while grinding away at code.

It might have helped that they had a core group of similarly minded people from the get go. They then had enough passion and momentum to attract others.

I would love to move to a smaller town, but would need at least a couple of other intellectual companions there to make it work.

Yes, exactly. I was shocked to read that and try to envision it happening today.

>The groupthink there is also becoming unbearable

I'm curious - do you mean groupthink in the governance/policy sphere, or in the groups of technically minded people working on the hard/interesting problems? Or little bit of both?

It's the people in the field. It's a huge technocrat echo chamber. Feeds off itself and produces a generally poor social effect. This is a good (comedic) parody of it [G].

[G] https://twitter.com/yayalexisgay/status/1249057146051821568

I like to call it the “gifted program” vibe.

> Yes, it's true that SF/NY have horrific governance, regulatory policies, taxes, and so forth (which cause high rents)

No, it's true that SF and NY have lots of people willing to spend lots of money in order to live there instead of elsewhere, largely because they expect to be able to make more money there, which causes high rents.

Sometimes I worry living in New Orleans will ruin me for other cities and then I realize all my collaborators (barring one interesting startup I’m not doing anything with just this moment) are other places. It’s painful (and arguably indicative of deep structural problems).

Something that the pandemic and the associated housing churn offers to young and childless city dwellers is the opportunity to move somewhere they can find a sense of community, which for many is something that is lacking in their lives as evidenced by the long HN threads on the very real subject of alienation felt by young workers in physically anonymous environments.

They might find this back in the small town they came from, or it might be just in another neighborhood of the same city that has more of a sense of community. It's not unusual for large impact events like this to cause people to consider switching to different style of life - and matching setting - that involves getting more connected with the people who live around them, or moving to a place more amenable to that.

I've already seen several examples of this happening on a local level, so I figure it's a real sub-trend among the many sudden human movement patterns initiated by the pandemic.

I'm in my 30s now, so moving back in with my parents is a no-go. If my partner and I were in real trouble they'd have no qualms about taking us in, but save for dire circumstances—it would pretty much be a last resort.

That said, we live downtown Toronto and it's been on my mind for some time to try and move out of the city. I love the city, but I grew up in a small rural town. I miss the green space. I miss the autonomy. And while I'm not much of a socialite, I do miss knowing my neighbours.

The churn in my building and the amount I see any familiar faces makes forming any relationships rare.

I'd been looking for a remote work option for a while, but since my current workplace has moved remote for the time being it's been rejuvenating the idea of moving away again.

Sadly, I've virtually been priced out of my home town. You get more bang for your buck than in the city, but the base pricing is about the same.

I've been taking time scouring for a viable option that wouldn't end up costing more necessarily. It's fun to dream, but it would definitely be nice to find some more concrete options.

It definitely seems more talked about around here than it used to be. We know people who've already made the move—even people I never would have expected to leave city life behind. Their whole personalities seemed built around it, and next I hear they've moved several hours away to a rural area—not even just the 'burbs.

> Their whole personalities seemed built around it, and next I hear they've moved several hours away to a rural area—not even just the 'burbs.

This is a common sentiment that I personally share. I am lucky to live in a dense city neighborhood with an amazing sense of community - stoop gatherings for drinks 5 evenings a week and kids doing chalk art and bicycling around, local teenagers to help out with babysitting, but also neighbors helping me move appliances, and me helping them with repairs and upgrades on their homes. It's like Amish barn-raising in the city.

But I have to say, that if I didn't have this, and my choice were suburbia or a mountain town ... the mountains win hands down.

Where do you live? I'm trying to find this type of city culture in NJ suburbs.

Oakland, CA. AKA "Hell" according to recent news. I should be clear that things are far from perfect here, but one of the things about a strong community is that it is most helpful precisely when things are not perfect.

If I had any advice, it would be to find a place with modest sized homes close to the street, and a mixture of generations and subgenerations, and a place that is not so poverty-stricken as to induce desperation in people, but not so wealthy that people don't really need each other's help.

What you describe sounds exactly like most neighborhoods in Boston. Well, not the couple affluent ones (those places suck), but all the others. Really enjoyed my time there.

In my experience (20ish years of cohousing and cooperative living, and a number of academia related moves) it can take three months to a year to really find a pack when moving to a new place. People generally already have their own packs, and not much time for new people, so it takes some active effort to find a good crew to be a part of.

The big exception is when you're moving as part of a large cohort, as in university or grad school, where everyone is on the same boat, with shared interests and few friends.

Shared housing also helps a lot. If you become best friends with a housemate, you probably get their friends for free.

But all of this is likely much harder under the pandemic...

> People generally already have their own packs, and not much time for new people, so it takes some active effort to find a good crew to be a part of.

It's true, but some communities are more naturally configured to integrate new people. A major forcing function for this is having children. Children do not have the same set of guards up as adults, so they will often force new parents to go outside of their existing circles.

Examples of this are communities that grow out of schools, childrens sports teams, or other community-based functions. The most basic community fostering venue is the sidewalk in front of your house where children may play.

Interesting. I'm thinking of moving into a city to find the community you speak of. Then again, I've never seen such a thing in America, not in cities, not in small towns, not in suburbs. I doubt it exists.

It definitely exists. Living in an Austin suburb now with most all of those features. It was even more so as a kid in Utah, but it was much more intertwined with the locally dominant religious group, so would be harder to replicate more generally.

Are you from abroad?

I'm 29, live in the Bay Area, and recently moved back to my parents place. At first I was embarrassed, but while running around the neighborhood I keep bumping into old high school and college classmates who did the same thing in order to save money. Like you said there's nothing to do anyway since everything fun is closed. I'm also saving about $2500 per month (more or less) and hanging out with my family is nice. Honestly, your parents will be happy to have you back anyway. There's nothing lame about moving back home since a lot of people are doing it and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Are your parents also in the Bay Area?

Yeah idk I just don't see the draw to the city now... and instead of half-assing it, maybe just moving home and getting a good bike etc is wortwhile.

Basically zero dating options though, so that's the big downside.

Yup they're in the Bay Area too, so it wasn't a big move. Not being able to date sucks, but if most people are moving back home, then maybe living with your parents won't have as much of a stigma. But given that we're experiencing a global pandemic, dating is something we should try to hold off on until the situation improves.

SF normalized being 30+, successful, but still living with roommates. As long as you have an adult relationship with your parents (aka they're okay with you having sex, and you're okay with your parents having sex - which they most likely did in order to have you) while all living under the same roof, then it's fine (assuming all parties involved can get over it).

The problem with dating while living out in the 'burbs is that the population density just isn't the same, even if you don't mind driving. Apps help in this regard. There's also the practical matter of alcohol. Taxis (inc Uber/Lyft) just aren't as convenient outside of the city. There are more parks to meet at though!

This has been practically addressed in places like Japan, where it's acceptable to use 'love hotels' for some private time without the sleezy feeling.

As someone who does enjoy the Bay Area, it's saddening that as soon as work doesn't require commute, there's no draw. Which I'm sure is the same for many. Place is not for everyone, but I picked the Bay Area because I do enjoy it.

This.

I don’t live in the Bay Area because I want to work in tech...

I work in tech because I want to live in the Bay Area, and my skill set of technical knowledge aligned with tech pretty nicely.

In San Francisco, when the pandemic ends and everything starts actually getting back to normal, we don’t have to worry about if the weather will be nice that month. We can pick back up where we left off.

I don’t have to cram our outside summer activities into five months anymore.

I love Chicago, but I did my time.

I just moved from Chicago to San Francisco last weekend and can definitely relate. I had such anxiety as I was locked inside watching the few months where it's enjoyable to be outside pass by. Even without the pandemic, I always felt such a need to go non-stop all summer because I knew the warm days were limited and it got exhausting. There are a number of things that I am going to miss about Chicago, but I really appreciate the fact that I'll be able to enjoy outdoor activities here year-round.

The general area definitely has its attractions. SF increasingly less so. And a lot of SV is soulless sprawl. But if money were no object, there are a lot of places in the Bay Area that are very attractive and the climate is mostly pretty great.

Money usually is an object though and it's not really surprising that people paying $4K a month would depart if they don't need to live there for work any longer and they can't really enjoy at least the non-natural aspects of the area.

Yup. Living with parents. Cancelled my lease (saving $3500/mo). My manager agreed to let me stay at home at least for the rest of 2020. Honestly, it's been nice. My mom cooks for me like I'm a teenager again, and I only recently graduated and I went to school pretty close to home so I have close HS friends or college friends nearby to physically distanced socialize. I was planning on moving back here in the future but if a lot of companies start permanent WFH I might accelerate my timeline.

same situation but I'm older. moved out of SF and I'm planning on going back near the end of the year. dating is awful but the quality of the rest of my life has been a significant increase from sitting in a 1 bedroom apartment alone for 3+ months with limited social options

Nice. Same for me on the mom cooking lol. It really is next level. Did you move out of NYC?

I moved out of the Bay Area. Honestly the mom’s cooking thing makes everything worth it. The fact that I don’t have to think about grocery shopping and what I’m going to eat is amazing. I just sit down at the table and eat whatever she cooks. Of course I try to help with the cooking when I can (and I’m learning how to cook her dishes!) but she’s also happy to do it since it means I’m home. I read a comment about how some people don’t have good relationships with their parents and I feel blessed and privileged that I do.

Pretty interesting that the biggest benefit of moving out the Bay Area is not having to worry about food. Many SV tech companies provide lunch and dinner.

amen, likewise

My moms food is atrocious this is doing nothing for me.

I did the same thing. Food is amazing. I was eating my own food (not terrible!) and takeout for months in NYC before coming back home a few weeks ago.

Also, I have 3x as much living space, tons of open green space to run in, and people to talk to (all while saving > $2k/month). Many have suffered tremendously during this pandemic so I'm very blessed to be so lucky.

Yeah seriously. What do you think are the downsides for moving home? Do you have a gf?

Wow, $3500/month on lease? In my country, folks "earn" one eighth of that on average.

In my home are 6 males over 18, me and my 5 sons. Three of us work FT & it's just enough to keep our head above water.

One son just graduated HS & will enter his final year of trade school this fall. His twin is entering his senior year of HS.

During most of the post-2008 recovery (that news orgs endlessly crowed about, especially after 2012) we ate rice, being unable to afford beans or anything else. Some days we ran our of rice.

From my perspective, most of the recovery was limited largely to shareholders & wealthy metro areas.

I don't fault or credit any PotUS for terrible years or less terrible years. I do, however, hold some lingering resentment for news orgs that stayed resolutely out of touch with all but select sq mi of the US. It's hard to not feel they earned whatever oblivion they may find themselves staring into.

:) It gives me a smile and good feeling to read below comments. Seeing americans living indians life. Living at parents home, good old moms cooking and she's complaining about dad to you while cooking.

as someone not from the US, The american mindset of moving out at 18 seems bizarre to me. (also, moving halfway across a continent aswell).

Most people in my country don't move out of their parents homes until their mid twenties (usually after university/military duty).

Also, it might be my ignorance of american culture. But to me it seems america lacks a certain sense of regional culture that exists in most other places around the world. a sense of belogin to a very localized culture.

Kind of hard to explain, "heimat" is a term which sort of covers it, but is not entirely what i mean.

For a sense of the culture surrounding the move-out-at-18 thing. Look at the worse of America's response to the pandemic. Imagine someone like that is your parents. Imagine trying to have a healthy respectful adult relationship with them. While not all American's have a bad relationship with their parents, looking at the worse helps visualize the central theme of "freeeeeeedom!" that moving out at 18 represents. Then also, some parents choose to start charging their children rent to live there, often when they turn 18. If you've got to pay rent, living with friends your own age sounds enticing!

As far as local culture, there are regions (and stereotypes for them) in the USA; the West Coast, the South, New England, among many others. There's a large amount of homogeneity (eg the same supermarket chains; the same 3 choices for ISP) but also smaller regional chains that haven't yet been "bought out".

> Also, it might be my ignorance of american culture. But to me it seems america lacks a certain sense of regional culture that exists in most other places around the world

That is largely your ignorance (not in a bad sense - it's just that you aren't aware of it). Some cities in the US are like that - no regional culture - because they have so many people moving in and out from different places, and they are so physically massive (Los Angeles for example sprawls like few cities do).

Between the coasts though, there are tons of places with good sized cities, great community, and a strong regional culture.

nothing bizarre even in Europe, I am yet to see teenager going to university who would want to stay living with parents supervision, everyone prefers dorm or shared apartment

if people return back to parents after university it's not really their choice, but financial decision, although I don't see many people returning even after graduation, rather take mortgage or share apartment once you enjoy freedom away from parents

personally my parents (mother) moved away from me when I was like 19 :-) then when she moved back I moved out, although I think the apartment in hometown was even for some time empty, nobody interested to keep living there

There's definitely regional culture. The Deep South is very different from New England is different from the Bay Area, etc.

There's no shame in moving back in with your parents, as long as they and you get along, and as long as you keep making something of yourself. I lived with my parents for seven and a half years after getting my bachelor's degree. The first two and half of those years I did music freelance, after which I landed my current full-time job in IT (but I've kept up the music too). I saved up a bunch and then a few months ago, shortly before turning 31, I bought a house.

I'd like to boast that it was very careful and farsighted financial planning on my part, but it really wasn't. I'm just good enough at appreciating the living moment that I didn't feel the same urge to move out that my peers felt.

I'm being very strict with doing worthwhile things and not lounging around.

I feel like it is almost more of a growth-phase than if I stayed in the city.

In the city there are so many stimuli to distract you perpetually... food, raves, dates, "networking" etc.

Now at home I can channel past experiences in solitude and learn, create, etc.

Of course the downside is there's no dating at all. So essentially will go celibate this fall/winter.

My only rain drops on your parade is that raves, dates and networking are particularly important in your 20's. I fear you would miss out on a lot of those activities that you will not get to ( or have far less opportunity to ) do when you're older. At 40 now, I'm glad I had those experiences, but little to no to desire to do them again.

I'm thinking of using this 1 year to kind of reduce the stimuli and recenter. Have def had my share of these experiences in the city. Not drinking alcohol for 2020 as one of my ways of resetting.

Close to 40 here. Have these experiences, you'll regret it later if you don't. There will be plenty of solitude later.

I've actually had a ton of these the past few years in the city. Of course more dates are always welcome.

Figure maybe 1 year of living clean and reducing the stimuli in the late 20s could be good.

Yes for sure, it's not up to me to tell you how to live. You do you. And sure, don't date if you don't feel like it.

But don't isolate. Your 20s are the "last" period where its easy to make friends. After that people have a more settled life, have children, have more responsibilities, move away. So just don't postpone meeting interesting people.

You're not alone. A lot of my peers in their 20s have already moved back in with their parents or were already with them to begin with (if their parents lived in the area). Some of the moved cross country shortly after the WFH orders went into place - presumably to save money.

If you get along with your family well enough, where they live makes sense for your job (internet/timezone), and they have the space to house you for then why not do it.

I won't be doing it for multiple reasons but I feel like I'm the minority. Most of my peers get along with their parents. (would be hard for them to break into the SF Bay Area with no parental support) I don't get along with mine - so I'll continue to pay out my ass to rent a substandard living space.

I moved out of NYC after the 2001 Al Qaeda attacks and back to my parents. There wasn't the same level of lockdown, and the 14 days I was stuck in SF when my 9/12 flight was canceled seems quaint now.

I used the change to learn python, improve my html & css skills, cook, and garden, all while consulting for my former employer. My parents were happy to come home to a meal every night and our relationship grew into friendship. My younger brother moved home a year later. Within a year, we had each found our "dream job" 90 minutes from home in opposite directions.

I left home fairly early and none of my school friends were still in town. The internet wasn't nearly as social as it is today. Going to see friends and doing freelance work in Brooklyn were the social highlights of the time.

In my neighborhood now, lots of younger people, many of color, are moving back in with their parents. In some cases, the parents have lost their jobs. The return to the nest is helping my community survive as these people are doing remote work or getting essential jobs and helping make ends meet. I am expecting foreclosures in the coming months, but these families are in a better position to weather it because of the returning income.

edit: In my mid-40s, I would move back in with my parents in a heartbeat. SARS-CoV-2, though, would likely hurt them more than me, so I'm staying clear.

I moved into my parent’s house for a spell several years ago to save money for a down payment. (Married, one kid, brought the au pair with us, lol.) These days, my parents live about 10 minutes away and we sleep over a couple of weekends a month. If we didn’t already live out in the exurbs near them we would have moved in with them during COVID.

Living closely with family is routine outside the US and is only considered “lame” in a handful of developed countries.

It also depends if you can tolerate living with your parents. My one living parent is driving my sister nuts, for instance.

This is maybe a bit too personal, but unfortunately I am not allowed to leave my country if I go back because of my mandatory military duty, the one which I do not plan to waste 2 years of my life on.

I miss my family and the city in general, our orchard and the foodporn-quality fruits such as peaches with skin that peels just like butter, sometimes I just question if it is all worth it. And probably is, but it feels definitely unfair to have to choose A or B, not a mix.

Does that mean you're never going back? I would find it difficult to never see my family again.

My siblings live abroad also, and we usually gather in summer vacations every 1-2 years somewhere with my parents. Still not as much as I would want to see them though.

I hope I will be able to go back sometime, unfortunately that time is not clear though.

That country probably gave you the opportunity you have now. You might not think its worth 2 years, but the country does and everyone else in that country also did.

You should really think about going back and serving a country which gave you opportunities.

> ... everyone else in that country also did.

They really don't, most of my generation and their parents do everything they can to avoid it, but that aside:

I am all fine with serving my country, I would love to go back for e.g. 2 month per year or biannual to teach what I have gained to the next generation at a high school or university whatever even village schools.

The problem is military is not the one I could be the most useful, apart from the ethical questions. And they don't give you a choice about how you serve your country.

No. Fuck conscription. It's just a modern form of time-limited slavery, with indoctrination and abuse on top. It has no place in the modern world. I totally support people who flee a country to escape it.

I’m 29 and living in downtown Manhattan at the moment. I decided to re-sign for my lease, which would have ended this month, after negotiating some concessions from my landlord.

Everyone’s got different priorities, but I enjoy living here and I’ve budgeted to account for my rent even if my job situation changes drastically.

Lockdown was unpleasant-but-tolerable through the worst of it (end of March -> end of April), and at this point I’ve got a good system for dealing with another one.

Generally though, I’m concerned that other states and municipalities aren’t going to deal with a resurgence as well as the NYC metro area might. My family lives in New Jersey, so I’d be comfortable going out there if I felt that I had to, but I’d absolutely prefer paying to stay in NYC over returning to family living in most of the other US states.

> Generally though, I’m concerned that other states and municipalities aren’t going to deal with a resurgence as well as the NYC metro area might. My family lives in New Jersey, so I’d be comfortable going out there if I felt that I had to, but I’d absolutely prefer paying to stay in NYC over returning to family living in most of the other US states.

You have to keep in mind that COVID wasn't much of a problem in the rest of America to begin with. Daily deaths in NJ have ranged from 34-132 for the month of June. In Florida, which has twice as many people, it's been 7-70. In Texas, which has three times as many people, it's been 6-47. Here in Maryland, which is a bit smaller than NJ, the highest count ever was 74 in early May, back when NJ was seeing 350+ deaths per day.

We'll see how those numbers react to recent case number spikes, but there is nothing about the situation in New York that would encourage me that NYC will handle the resurgence better. The same factors that caused NY and NJ to be hit devastatingly hard off the bat (density, population mobility) will remain liabilities as things reopen.

I think that even comparing NY/NJ to CA right now makes me slightly more confident that the NY Metro Area will handle a potential future resurgence better.

I was out at some of the protests a few weeks ago, and the fact that NYC hasn’t seen a measurable uptick in cases after that and the reopening is promising IMO.

I will probably be doing that. Because of corona, I lost my job. In my case, I was living as an expat. Now I'm waiting for an offer from another company. If it's not good enough, then I will move back and take a year off to try new things like working remotely.

I don't want to work at a place that I don't really like, especially when I am living alone in abroad and there's a high risk of second wave coming. I guess it's time to take a break and focus on myself and my family.

Also was in NYC. My inlaws have a place in CT with a basement that is larger than my NYC apartment. Moved out a few months ago and won't be renewing. Might move back to the city in 6-12 months covid dependent but for now, I'm thinking we'll sit tight and enjoy the summer and fall in the foothills of the berkshires. no garbage on the street, lush green mountains all around. really hard to want to go back to the city at this point...

We are in the process of moving back to our home town of Eau Claire, WI from Minneapolis. Doubling our apartment space for $500 less. It's only 90 mins away from the city, so when we need an international airport again, it's still close.

Eau Claire is a beautiful city with a ton of outdoors activities, and endless biking/running trails. For a town of it's size, the restaurant scene is also quite diverse. We only did a few years in MPLS, and while I did like a lot of it, I couldn't stand not being able to go anywhere with it being absolutely packed.

Sort of. I moved back to my hometown to an old (and I mean old) family flat that my father owns that is 2 minutes walk from my parents house.

Honestly, I wanted to shoot my self in the face every day. I love my parents, but I left their home and city at 17 and coming back after 20 years just made me realize I rather starve than live in that shitty hellhole I grew up on.

Sorry, not related, but fuck, I hate that town!

You hate the town itself or just you hate the mental constraint of being around your parents and all the things that trigger your childhood? I don't hate my hometown but I do feel some mental constraint when Im here.

Both.

I hate my hometown (even though most of my old time friends live here, I can go to any bar/restaurant and I am treated like family), but the town, the overall people here, the layout, I just hate it.

As for my parents, I love them, but both me and my father know that we can't be together for long. I moved back with them during lockdown to help them out, but god, the day I got out of there seemed like I won the lottery.

(Again, I love my parents, but our personalities are so different that it is impossible to live in close proximity)

Yeah I hear you there, that would be a big one for me. I have a lot of mental constraints around my parents. Not at ease doing things I like to do without my parents always trying to tone down everything I want to do for work or fun. It's incredibly stressful when they do that because it's always screaming in my face "don't be yourself, be the normal person we want you to be" and I don't think the point of life is to be normal

Yeah definitely can see that happening. For me it's just that they project a mental space of me being unable to do even simple things, "make sure you turn the handle right!"

They watch the news every night, my dad yells at the TV screen.

Really annoying but not the end of the world. I'm trying to spend my time learning, creating, while using as little mental/emotional energy as possible.

Do you mind sharing which town? Or which part of the world / U.S.? I’m just curious where you dislike so much...

Ermesinde, Porto, Portugal. You probably never in your life heard of it :) Most people in Portugal also don't except for a sketch in an old stupid comedy show that put it on the map because 'Ermesinde was the town of the hot bitches' ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uv7y1dtxUk )

And I find that great :)

I had the opposite experience ;) And is not the big/small town thing. I actually moved from my 'perfect' place, and it was a 4000 people village :P I actually prefer that! Just my hometown, I don't know exactly why (I have ideas) rubs me the wrong way.

Ah that makes sense. I have a tinge of that but it's probably memories. Eventually we will move out when family is of less focus.

We're young now so it was a good idea to have family close. Eventually we're going to move somewhere even more remote.

I have a cousin that her whole life always wanted to live close to her parents. She started to live 100 meters away from them. Then bought the land next to their house to build, etc.

I have always been an independent bastard. I love my family to death, but I want to be the furthest away from them. I am who I am, but different lives have different requirements. And different parents have different ways to be dealt with.

I can say here, I would love to have a more 'present' life with my parents. Do wood working projects with my father, or take my mother for coffee somewhere, but we are so different in the way we think, that 99.5% of the times, we just end up arguing (just Saturday evening, we had a family dinner with extended family, and I left their house after a screaming match with my father, no-one was right, we are just too different to ever understand each other)

I never left. I lived ~3000 feet from the hospital where I was born for most of my life. I currently live 10 miles from my birth place. I am you could say a very provincial person. I love New Hampshire, even if it does not love me.

As a web dev I've eschewed some opportunities in order to stay here, where I'm in a sort of professional solitary confinement. It is hard to know if its been the right move (professionally, intellectually, etc) because the tradeoffs are not at all linear. So I don't know if I've ever "saved money" but I certainly don't have to make the same tradeoffs. (I wake up with the sun and a rooster, I have lots of space all to myself and my family, there is no crime to speak of, etc. But it's not "fun" like NYC is fun, I am sure).

Such professional solitary confinement makes me very, very grateful for Twitter and Hacker News.

32, I'm married.

Nice. Yeah honestly once you get a solid few months in the city and do all that jazz, it's just more of the same. End of the day you need to find your own ways of being entertained and growing... sounds like your location gives you that.

Let's calm down in the comments with assumptions about what people's relationships with their parents look like. E.g., some people's parents get in the way of dating, some don't. Some would be happy to see you again, some wouldn't. Some have room to take you, some don't! Talk about your own experience.

My experience is that my parents live in a national COVID hotspot so... yeah no. Also moving while we're in a pandemic ain't fun--I'm moving in with a SO.

For me, pretty certain I’m staying in San Francisco.

Leaving was my original plan for this year. My late boyfriend had never lived outside the Bay Area, we decided were going to change that. Since his passing in March, that’s not an option for us anymore.

Why stay? My close friends - some of whom I have known and worked with for 15 years - all live here now. My boyfriend was an only son; being near his mother for mutual support has made this process a bit easier for us.

While moving away would be a good way to reset after losing my boyfriend, I feel that would be too much change to handle.

That’s not to say that things are staying the same around here. Two of my three roommates have cohabitated together here as a couple; and are indeed moving back to the Midwest soon - giving up their bedrooms.

That leaves two of us in a (rare for SF) 4 bedroom 3 bath house; which sets us all back about $4200/month.

I am not yet willing to give up my lease and head for the Suburbs at that low of a cost. Though not rent controlled, we’ve not had a rent increase since 2016.

It’s not just a cheap house. It’s got a lot of benefits. I have a backyard. I’m not sure a new landlord would install 7.2kW EV charging in the garage. I don’t share walls with neighbors. Once life gets social again, I’ll resume enjoying a 20 minute walk or 4 minute drive to the Castro, Haight-Ashbury, or Inner Sunset. If we are in this for the long-haul, I’ve got the interior greenbelt to hike.

If I consider staying in the Bay Area, it’s not substantially cheaper to rent (in comparison) outside of the City for single family homes. The quality of life for me suffers if I had to travel into SF - time, tolls, BART/Caltrain delays - it’s not worth the hassle even mostly working from home.

My plan is to wait for the housing bubble to burst again, and ride this out. I’m not moving back to the sauna like humidity and the frigid cold of the Midwest.

Nothing prevents me from asking for a rent decrease though.

Having my own place has really helped with my social life and relationships. It's nice to have a place to invite people over that you can call your own.

Yeah but is that worth it in the fall/winter when you're paying close to 2k just to live in the city? Idk.

Hm, I guess my outgoings are around the 500 mark, which makes it much easier to swallow.

To hijack this thread, has anyone moved places in the same city to decrease their rent? In SF right now rents are taking a pretty big dip and I’m thinking about moving apartment.

I just signed a lease with my roommate down the street from my current place, similar amenities in downtown Chicago.

Old: 915 sqft, 2 bd, 1.5 ba, $3000/month, $300 / mo parking. New: 1400 sqft, 2 bd, 2ba, $2800/month, free parking.

Our current place made us an offer at $2650 a month due to decreased demand.

Wow. Must be a nice place. I used to live in a super nice 1br for 1300/month in Chicago 4y ago.

I'm moving to move in with my significant other, but I've noticed rents taking a dip here in Toronto. Not sure how it is in SF, but here all buildings older than November 2018 are rent controlled - leading to good opportunities when rent dips, especially if you didn't have a great rate to begin with.

My SO and I "saved" around $400/month thanks to COVID - identical 2bd/2bth units to the one we got were renting for ~$3100/month pre-COVID, we got ours for $2700/month.

Yes. Also negotiated to get lower rent on the new place. You can probably negotiate with your current landlord if you threaten to leave (of course you have to be willing to move).

I stayed in my apartment but negotiated a concession from my landlord to lower the effective annual rent.

What was the concession ( just curious ) ?

No rent increase + 1 month free (July) + a discount on one month’s rent (August).

Amortized over the full 12 month term, it effectively knocks a few hundred dollars per month off of a (very small) one bedroom apartment (with an in-unit washer/dryer!) in lower Manhattan.

You think staying in Manhattan is going to be worth it during the fall/winter?

Basically nothing to do besides order takeout and walk around, bad weather. No big concerts, etc.

I’m gonna be honest this is difficult to parse.

I’ve lived here for nearly 5 years now, and it sounds like you’re kind of describing Manhattan in the winter nearly any year. I’ll likely do most of the things I’d do anyway, except I’ll be wearing a mask for most of them.

I dunno, I guess I just enjoy my neighborhood and I’m putting a significant portion of my income into savings while still living here so why would I move?

Yeah true. Usually in the fall/winter I would go to a big meetup once or twice a week, go out to a rave, get some coffee and chill at a coffeeshop, go on a random tinder date... I guess all things I'm thinking 90% won't be able to do this year.

I was able to save $200/month by finding a different apartment (I live in Minneapolis, so this is a roughly 16% decrease in rent).

lol and our landlord wanted to raise our rent prices in response to us asking to go month-to-month

I don't see anything wrong with that, but also depends on your lifestyle and relationship with your parents. Your dating life will suffer unless you're cool with bringing a random person home with your parents there. I'm sure your parents will enjoy the short term company and can help them with chores and throw them some cash.

Yeah with Covid no way. Basically no dating. I have a gf that lives in the city... so idk how long that will last.

I am a 30-year-old female who lives with my 70-year-old, widowed Mom in California. She's not doing great financially and is sick, so I help her a lot, and provide company as she gets pretty lonely. Been protecting her a lot from going out too much since the pandemic started, so that's sort of worked out. I'm not sure if those of you who say it limits dating options are men, but for me, my options haven't been limited at all. And in the past few months, I have noticed a lot of men I've spoken to on dating apps are back at home. I have continued to talk to them and don't think anything of it. I get it -- it's a pandemic, it's smart to save money, and honestly our parents could do with the help right now. Helping them means they don't need to go out as much, reducing their risk. So if you're a man worried about this, which I suspect some of you are, don't! The only issues: 1) sometimes I fear my Mom has become too dependent on me for social needs and what not, and it can be a lot. But this is something I am trying to work on. 2) the stigma I face weirdly is when I read threads like this lol and read people calling people like me "losers." It does make me feel pretty badly about myself, irrationally so. But normally when I tell people in real life about my situation, nobody really cares that much. Some people say it's wonderful my Mom has me. I think to make this work, be of value to your parents, whether that's helping them financially or just being a social support. Just make sure it stays healthy, and it should be fine.

Yeah good point. I just don't want to be chatting digitally with somebody for so long... it's kind of a waste of time for both parties, but esp for a guy.

Biggest concern is bringing it back to my parents accidentally. Do you go on dates or just chat online?

Before the pandemic, went out on dates all the time. Since the pandemic started, it's been more about talking online. Was considering meeting in-person soon, but the surges in California this week have me reconsidering, mostly because my Mom is high-risk. I don't know if your parents are in poor health, or where you're based, but that's something to weigh in as well while dating. But also, I once dated a guy who was building a startup and living at home temporarily to save money; we just booked us AirBnBs when we wanted to meet but not be around his parents, so there are other options by the way if the girl/you are uncomfortable.

I was going to move to Singapore in June. Rather than re-singing my lease, I bought a pickup and a camper. I only plan on doing RV life until October-ish, and then if the world is still on lockdown I'll find somewhere for the winter. Annoyingly all leases seem to be 1-year, and anything less has a crazy markup. I'm inclined to purchase some land, put up a steel kit building, and make it a home/shop space for the winter.

>> purchase some land, put up a steel kit building, and make it a home/shop space for the winter

This is an excellent idea!

I had previously worked at a terrible startup, lost my job, and moved to Oakland to cut costs. I think I save 50%.

With COVID-19 there was no point to live in San Francisco anyways, my neighborhood is more peaceful, I have more space, better weather and there is less social unrest. My breaking point was a mob destroying my neighborhood in SF.

That's fine. But why pay Manhattan or SF rents if there's no social life (or, it's tainted at best).

For great food!

I would never move back in with parents. Firstly, it would be a privilege to have a loving relationship with parents and which I don't have. They were abusive people and the world will be better when they rot to nothingness. In any case I would consider living with parents while you're close to 30 or older as a disadvantage in the dating world. I can understand moving out of the city to save money but how much more are you saving while living with parents unless you're mooching off of them?

The covid-19 travel restrictions have unfortunately delayed an international move for me. I'm not considering moving back home, but in the event that the restrictions are not lifted before my current lease expires, I will certainly be trading my expensive urban apartment for something more remote and closer to nature. All of the advantages of city life are inaccessible for the foreseeable future, so why not move?

I can rent an entire house for half of what I'm currently paying for an apartment!

Yeah I just don't see the point. Things have started to open up in NYC but it's just not the same.

Yeah, I did this in November, quit my job of 5 years that I loved doing, left the city and moved back with my dad. Timing probably couldn't have been better. Would have sucked hard being out in the city during this covid stuff. I've had a few jobs since moving back, none have been as good or even as enjoyable, i've managed to keep working fairly consistenly though. So far i've managed to save more money over 6 months than I was able to save over the last 5 years and that's still with paying rent and bills and stuff.

But, it's hard being away from my girlfriend, she's living with her parents not too far from here but far enough we don't see eachother anywhere near as much as we'd like, living with my dad as an adult has been a bit challenging. We've both been used do having our own space and lives and stuff for over a decade now, so there's been a bit of stress and such.

Personally though, I'm looking forward to getting my own place again but I don't think I'm going to go back to the city. It wasn't worth the stress and cost of living.

Damn that's crazy. So were you living almost paycheck to paycheck in the city?

Yeah I don't think it's that worth it once you've had your share of the "city experiences". Esp now with corona, makes no sense i think.

Not quite, but almost. I had about a month's savings. So about two pay cheques at any time in the bank. I've had more or less at any point in time but about that on average, i've almost tripled my savings since then and I haven't been that careful or anything. It's just been the cheaper rent it went from $1600 between two people to $600 between two people, less than half of before, cheaper food and savings in travel expenses. I still ended up traveling at least an hour or more to and from work each day. The cost of my commute has gone way down.

Every Haskell programmer I know lives with his parents.

Hahah that's so true!!!

Try what I believe will become a common practice in the next ten years. Buy your parent’s house, they keep the cash on the condition they build a secondary detached dwelling in the yard. Aka granny suite. It’s a great deal, you get a house with a separate apartment. When they pass away, it’s an income property at no expense to you. Plus they help raise your kids while you help them in old age.

haha, is this sarcasm? as a father of 2 this sounds like an incredibly insane and entitled plan. You do realize that older folks also look at their homes as investment vehicles for their own retirement, right?

I moved with my girlfriend from our apartment in Amsterdam to her family holiday home on an island in South-Eastern Europe. We save a decent amount of cash (our rent+utilities was 2000€ alone) and live an amazing life here.

Definitely considering to find remote-only positions in the future. Currently my company allows me to wait out COVID anywhere within roughly the same timezone.

This doesn't count unless girlfriend's parents sleep in an adjoining bedroom.

I did that 7 years ago. I was 28 years old and by that time spent all of my adult life chasing startups (both my own and helping others) without much to show for.

After living abroad (London, Berlin, Kuala Lumpur) I got back to small village of 1500 in the middle of nowhere, worked remotely and also bought some land to farm.

It was a big change to be back in place where I never fit in as a child (and escaped as soon as I could at the age of 15) and where I still struggle with small town mentality till this day. But it was also much needed break that gave me opportunity to not work that much, meet people whom live doesn't revolve around startups and after all I see it as a positive life event.

I've lasted there for 9 months or so and then moved to a city nearby, where I still live till this day. I am back in tech 4 days a week and then coming to my farm for two days a week. I would say my "sabbatical" helped me build new foundations of my current life.

Honestly, I hope one of the side-effects of the current crises is that there is a re-assessment of the value of multi-generational households. We are currently in the process of building a new home (planned before Covid-19) that will accommodate my wife's senior mother as well as provide a future shared home for our son.

Bravo. This is, IMHO, one of the biggest problems with the United States, we throw away our elders. In other countries, such as Russia, it is very common to have three or four generations living in the same home, with the elders providing much support for the family, such as cooking or running the quarter-acre garden in the back yard.

They really sold us on a bunch of crap last century with the "atomic" family and suburban keep up with the Jonses bull.

Also, the massive size of the US and it's larger cities isn't helping.

For comparison, (it might be my limited experience with people from the US) but several people i know move across the continent for jobs/school never to move back again.

This is not a bad thing per se, but seeing your parents only a couple of times a year seems very weird to me.

In comparison, most of my peers live in or near the city they lived in their entire lives (i know of only one example of someone who lives further away (2h drive).

Being near your parents/grandparents is important, especially when you have children. It creates a sense of community that is hard to explain.

My Bay Area tech company is likely WFH due to Corona until as late as next February. I question daily why not immediately move to a lower COL town, at least until then? If I was single and renting, I already would have gotten out of here, but it's slightly more complicated/difficult with a family and mortgage and a house to sell.

The two reasons I can think of not to move:

1. End of WFH happens, and Company says, "Well everyone, back to the office! Now I'm screwed and have to move back to the Bay Area or quit. Bringing me to...

2. If I had to look for a new tech job in Nowheresville, USA, how many months (years) would it take?

Unfortunately, working in tech tends to handcuff you to the expensive Bay Area or other expensive hubs. If it weren't for these areas' relatively secure pool of jobs to choose from, there's no way I'd choose to live here.

I lived my parents until I was 25. I payed off my student loans, saved up a 20% down payment, and purchased a house 5 minutes from my work. I think the few years of sacrificing my social life has put me on a better trajectory. They didn't insist on rent but I paid $300/mo for their generosity.

Not sure if you still have friends at home, but perhaps the most fun period of my life was living at home after grad school working a low-wage job. I spent a ton of time with my old buddies drinking and playing games like MTG. I moved to another city to get a "real" job and ended up living here for the last six years. I've met a lot of cool people here and been much more successful career-wise, but honestly I'd love to go back in the next few years before I'm really old and enjoy the time with my friends and my parents while they're still around. You may or may not have similar draws where you're from, but if you do I'd just say it might feel like a retreat at first but actually end up being a great time in your life.

Nope. Got a wife and three kids :)

But fortunately we live in a very affordable town, still quite near the big city.

I know some people who do that. They are still single years later, but they saved a lot of money.

That's the tradeoff for sure. Relationship with parents aside, "I live with my parents" is not a good look in the dating scene for anyone past university age.

Kind of. Live in a big city, but have in-laws an hour and a half away.

We go out there on the weekends, and occasionally for a week or more while her parents are on vacation or otherwise out of the house. We can both work remotely, so it's mostly how much we feel like being in rural Canada. We're in a great location downtown, but it's moot when you're unable to go to anything nearby.

Her folks live on a forested acreage, and we can do long walks with their dogs, go for bike rides, etc. They are in the city at least once a week anyway for work and other obligations, so it's not like I'm exposing them to stuff they're not already getting... But it's definitely a good change of pace.

I don't think it's lame. If you get along with your family then it's amazing you have that opportunity. You can pay them rent and save and it benefits your whole family.

I'm 30, in grad school, and moved back in with my parents just prior to the corona lockdown.

I didn't break my old lease, so I didn't save much money until last month when the lease was up. I thought I was going to move out again around August but with nothing opening up I don't really see a point in it, and will probably live here for the foreseeable future. Plus, I actually really enjoy living at home.

I feel vaguely embarrassed about it but with nothing open it doesn't really come up much.

Not me, but I've seen a lot of people moving in with their parents. In most cases, these are people fresh out of college, but some of them are in their late 30s or 40s.

This thread has made me feel a bit better about my situation. I'm a 25-year-old who may end up having to move back in with family if I can't find new work by the end of August. So far June has been pretty fruitless. Optimistic about the next couple months but moving back in is definitely a last-resort for me, mostly because it would be a huge hassle to move all my stuff into storage and travel from California to Idaho.

My wife and I did this in 2005/6.

Best thing that we ever did. We had a great time with her parents and were able to save for a significant down payment, which saved us a fortune.

We went a step further and moved to the provinces. Whatever excitement we lost in NYC is made up for by a better life in almost any measure.

If you really go to hacker meetups/etc, you may lose something, but I find most people like the idea of doing that more than the doing.

I also have a lease in NYC set to expire in September and plan not to renew it in favor of moving back home to Colorado. My hope is I'll be able to find remote work and pay off my student loans in one year while COVID blows over. No reason to pay exorbitant rent prices in a city where I cant take advantage of any of the benefits bc of the lockdown. I'm thinking this will be a nice retreat into nature.

Yeah all you can do in NYC now is go to the park and get take-out food... not going to socialize heavily since all big events are cancelled.

I can't be the only one in that I grew up in a very conservative and religious environment and towne (think end-of-the-world-but-not-quite-cult-belief-group); and while I'd love to spend more time with my family I honestly don't think I could take it.

Many years ago I engineered the situation to be that I am purposefully multiple states away and while I wish I wasn't as far, I am glad I am.

A lot of parents have no social life. This will only get worse with age. When you move back in with them, you give them a false sense of a social life and friendship, which will leave an even bigger hole when you move. Something to keep in mind.

Edit: For all the people negging - the point is that you should encourage your parents to have a social life, which is proven to be good for health, happiness, etc.

I've made several trips to visit my parents while working, even redirecting mail once. But I still have an apartment in the bay area. I'm sure my family would be happy if I moved in for awhile. But I like my apartment, and I would expect that officially moving out of the bay area would come with a salary cut, I don't think it would save me that much money.

My friend just did this last month. Moved back in with the parents, saving a ton of money. They actually messaged me the other day saying, "Man, my bank account hasn't ever been this full!".

It's causing some stress though, as both they and their parents get used to living under the same roof again, and how the rules might be a bit different now in your mid-20s.

Not now, but when I was 32 I did for about 2.5 years. Saved up and bought a house after. I don't regret it at all, though I do wish I had been more social during that time (I figured it wasn't worth it as I was only going to stay a year or so originally). It's a great way to save money if you can work remotely.

Wife and I moving back to our home town. Although all our friends are in SF, it's miserable working from a small apartment and not being able to see our friends. Our destination happens to be in one the places that is covid free right now though. We plan on moving back to SF if/when things clear up

Not an option, and boy do I wish it was.

Yes, I've often thought over the past few months that I would move back home if I could. I'm in my 20s, and relatively unattached, and now would be the perfect opportunity to spend a lot of time with my parents, if they were still around.

I'm right there with you. I hope the people with this option realize how lucky they are.

You think it's a good option? Basically sacrifice any sense of your own place, put all dating on hold etc for a lot of savings and healthy living.

My comment said it's not an option. And yes I would sacrifice said things right now. but again - not an option.

OP, I'm your age.

I'm still paying my lease in Austin, but I went back to the East Coast to be closer to family in early March. My one bedroom apartment in a busy part of town turned into a huge drawback once this all started, especially since I have a large dog. He's been enjoying the yard.

Are the benefits of living in Austin not there anymore with the lockdown?

For me personally. I can't really see my friends, I can't really walk over to the coffeeshop or bar to work and get out of the house. Having a (large) dog means that I also have to leave the apartment several times a day to properly exercise him. In the last month, my apartment complex has had 3 cases of COVID self-reported, and while they are all apparently self-quarantining, it doesn't make me want to return any time soon.

Honestly I've thought about it, but not to save money per se, but because I'm angling to switch my full time gig from software to music, which is far less lucrative. But yeah, I say you should go for it, COVID-19 isn't going away anytime soon.

Spend time with your family, evaluate your trajectory in life. This will make you stronger.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Taking a "breather" from the city life, I've had a few years there doing that whole jazz.

Might be good to save, live healthy, evaluate what I want from the next 5 years.

5 years in USA (2 years Masters and 3 years as a software engineer). Moved back to India couple months ago. Already saved enough in two months which wouldve taken 6 months in USA. Well, I also live cheap and invest a lot on Gold.

no, since I own my apartment, currently saving for second one (could already buy at least another 2-3 apts in my hometown with what I have), the monthly savings would be negligible, while quality of life would be significantly lowered especially for my children

I mean if you own apartment what you will save, the rest of your expenses is almost same anywhere you move, the difference in service prices is negligible

though we stayed at father's place like a year with child after moving back to Europe while looking for apartment and doing paperwork, once the apartment was ready we moved out immediately

I'm switching jobs and i want to go backpacking for a year, so yeah. If you don't have a SO and don't plan to go "socialize" in the short term this is not a bad idea imo.

Switching jobs after the backpacking trip? No working during the trip? Sounds like a good time.

Yeah that's the only downside... basically zero dating that whole time. But save a ton, reevaluate things... I'm leaning towards it being worth it.

Dating is already a little weird with everything shutdown.

My NYC lease got renewed in Feb just before all of this.

If I was on the summer cycle I’d be moving to the burbs.

Edit: landlord said they’d consider letting me out for 2-3 months of rent paid as a fee. That’s 7-10k.

Darn, bad timing. Mine's up in August. I tried to get out but they said unless I lost my job I can't.

Pretty much decided not going to renew. Just doesn't make sense.

Biggest downside is going from unlimited high quality dating options to basically none. But whatever.

I've been allowed to continue working from home (at my parents' house) since lockdown and save 800€/month (half of my paycheck) :)

Definitely go home if your folks are sane. A lot of my friends broke their leases and are back with their parents/families or siblings.

I moved to Veracruz, Mexico partly to save money, partly to learn Spanish. I pay $75/mo for a room in a fully furnished apartment.

Nice are you American? I'm B2 in spanish and would consider doing the same thing.

Yep! US citizens get 6 month tourist visas, so that's nice. And they're not fussy about "visa trips" (renewing by crossing the border). Obviously, that's gonna be a bit harder now.

Finding a place was a real problem, though. They use Facebook Marketplace for everything, and I didn't have a Facebook account (you can't use marketplace until your account is at least 6 months old). On top of that, most places I found were unfurnished (not even a fridge).

If you're gonna move here for a year or less, I think it's best to find a room in a share house. Luckily, I had a friend who had a spare room.

Also, make sure you bring your debit card. I forgot mine. Boy, is that long story.

Great to know. How's the safety and the amenities (dining, delivery, laundry) there? Are you enjoying it?

I'm in a gated community at the moment. Safety is not a concern whatsoever. Even in the city center, it's pretty quiet here. It's pretty dangerous in Mexico City or some places in the North. The danger is pretty localized, so as long as you know what things/places to avoid, you'll be fine. Having a native friend can be pretty helpful here. If not, there's always Reddit.

As far as dining, there are restaurants and street food everywhere. Many places have servicio a domicilio or use Uber Eats. I think Uber Eats is only available in the bigger cities, though.

Laundry is great! If you don't have a washing machine, you take your clothes to a lavandería. They'll wash, dry, and fold all your clothes for about $3. It's pretty convenient.

Oh, and the enjoying it part - hell yes. I'd much rather be stuck here in a cheap foreign country than back at home!

Wow! Why so cheep? Mexico can't be that cheap, can it?

Correct! This was a pretty unique find. It's because I'm living with a friend, in a very non-touristy area, waaay out in the suburbs.

I'm actually moving closer into the city in a couple weeks. Rent will be closer to $100 for a similar room there.

I never would've found these places without a network, though.

Kind of, I chose not to renew my lease in NYC and go live relatively far from work with my significant other and her mom.

Home is in a different timezone + I rent a non-furnished place.

That’s really the issue with renting furnished, you can’t easily move.

You mean that renting furnished makes it easier to move right?

Yeah, I miswrote!

I've been thinking of doing this in order to save a bit more for house deposit in London.

Depends on your age a little, at 20 OK, 30 mostly OK, at 40, hmm.

And depends on their age - once they hit 70, 80, 90, it can make sense to have a multi-generational household again. If you count raising your own kids as multi-generational, the times in your life where it is odd to have parents and children together are the minority. You just switch which role you play every couple decades.

More like

20 - OK

25 - hmm

28 - grow up

Ha maybe without the pandemic. But with the pandemic I would say up until 30 is completely fine... stacking mad guap

Where I'm from it's more like:

20 - Nah

25 - WTF are you serious?

30 - Hey, look at this loser over here!

Anything past university age is firm "hmm" territory in most areas.

What is university age and what is most areas?

Lame or not, I'd do it @ 28 & single :p

yup, at 40 and after my divorce.

No way in hell my parents would take me back in and no way in hell I'd deal with that again.

That being said, I really wish I could because I might be able to afford going back to school in that case.

no

Nope, my parents are capitalists so they’d charge me rent anyways.

You think thats bad? My mom won't even clean my laundry or heat up my pizza rolls!

Do all adults in a household share responsibility for taking care of it?

No, I'm an adult.

In the Great Depression many adults lived together.