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"Have no choice" is false. Fortunately, email still works. As does any messenger through a VPN. Using Wechat is simply being complicit with censorship out of laziness.



Keep in mind that most major domains outside of China are blocked. Chinese services aren't going to be any more lax with surveillance than WeChat and have the same registration requirements.

You could maybe try registering your own server, but do you want to have the possibility of questionable messages being saved on a server that you own when dealing with Chinese authorities? Any "oops, sorry" goes out the window when they think you're actively dodging filtering to that extent.


Disclaimer: mainland Chinese here.

> most major domains outside of China are blocked

I don't think this is true; GFW works in a disallow-list fashion and domains have to be explicitly blocked (which is why people do keyword attacks[0]).

[0]: https://github.com/cirosantilli/china-dictatorship


Certainly the block is manually controlled.

But I believe that GitHub is not blocked yet just because it is not "major" enough because it is used almost exclusively only by programmers.

If non-programmers started to use it more, I believe it will get banned.


GitHub's been banned in the past. It made development work near impossible, so they unbanned it.


The parent is talking about communicating with friends and family. My point is not about evading surveillance, it's about not using one of the main tools of the CCP censorship apparatus.

If you're inside China and care about your safety, you would think twice about sending "questionable" messages even on the most secure channel because you're still physically vulnerable to rubber hose cryptanalysis.


And I didn't say anything about sending anything.

If anybody messages you or your family/friends receives something suspicious something and the Party suspects you're intentionally avoiding their watchful eye with a custom mail server, I think you might end up worse off. All it takes is one goofball finding a vulnerability in your system and dropping a joke image or bit of text to royally screw you.

Furthermore, while it's nice in theory to deploy your own servers and get all of your friends and family to exclusively chat through your homemade application, it's very unlikely. WeChat is basically an OS all its own these days. It's a social network, chat app, payment app, shop, and more. People are incredibly reluctant to give up convenience unless they're very motivated and technologically inclined. And for people inside of China, getting a VPN or non-Chinese messenger is quite difficult thanks to locked down app stores and most people communicating only through phones.

I don't use Facebook and won't budge on that issue. My parents won't use anything that's not Facebook. If they won't take 10 seconds to register for anything else, then they certainly won't want to deal with anything I'd try to scrap together. The end result is that I make a VOIP call to their phone about once a month and they ask me to just give up and use Facebook at some point. It's probably a similar situation with most people wanting to leave XYZ terrible messenger.


How is "have no choice" false when you have to pretend to be from another country to be able to use messaging services? If the choice is bordering on illegal (I'm not familiar with the intricacies of Chinese law but I'd assume it's atleast frowned upon to bypass their barriers) then is it really a choice? To me a choice would be that you could use the state sanctioned communication apps OR another one in the same way.


My understanding is that VPNs are not hard to get and are silently tolerated. Obviously, using them to then do something illegal like plan your own protests might get you in trouble, but using it to access YouTube or chat to someone overseas via WhatsApp is allowed.


They were tolerated at first but not as much any more. https://www.pcmag.com/news/china-starts-issuing-145-fines-fo...


It's not as obvious as before, and they try to show their big arms to discourage most of the people, but there is always a way. I live in China since almost 8 years and I've seen so many articles with big titles like "VPN are going to be totally blocked next month". Every time I'm scared, but every time not a lot change (hopefully, otherwise I would just leave).

On big CCP reunions (next one at the end of may), they somehow block most of the VPN for several days, so they have the capacity to do it. But it never last so long, I feel they use it a bit like a pressure cooker, to release pressure when people are getting upset.


hmm. I kinda disagree. For a lot of my relatives, WeChat == the internet. I honestly don't know if any of them have actual email addresses. So the alternative to WeChat is not talking to them at all.


QQ works as well, I would be curious how does QQ compare to WeChat regarding censorship, maybe flying under radar currently?


Probably censored as well, because both are owned by the same company Tencent.


> As does any messenger through a VPN

Except VPNs are illegal in china. If a site is banned in china. Using a VPN to circumvent the law is breaking the law.

Email is not secure.


There is no such thing as "the law" in China. You may be imprisoned or disappeared if you didn't do anything to circumvent "the law", there are always undisclosed "relevant rules and regulations" ready to be unleashed. You can also carry out brazen illegal activities as long as you are well-connected (until you start stepping on toes of someone more well-connected than you).

So what if email is insecure, neither is Wechat. And encrypted email is still a thing.


It's easy to point to examples of all those things in the US. Both countries still have laws.


You are wrong.

There is a big difference between countries with independent judicial systems, and China where judges are below the local party secretary.

Chinese laws are decoration. What actually counts is what the party decides.


Did you know that 95% of people convicted of a crime in the US were not convicted by that independent judicial system? https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/prisons-are-packed-bec...

Just because there isn't "the party" making decisions in the US doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of flexibility in when and how the law is applied. It just gets left up to the local sheriff or prosecutors.


Typical Wumao whataboutism! Even the best legal system is flawed because it is handled by humans.

But that doesn't mean that the legal system in the facist dicatorship of China is comparable in any way to a proper democratic judiciary.

Chinas system is an unconstitutional state by definition.


some VPNs are in theory legal, but you are right for 99.9% of Chinese population they are inaccessible and illegal

people downvoting you are morons downvoting for technicality, while you are right


This isn't strictly true - https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3023081/c...

It's also worth noting that a cellular connection that is roaming is not generally subject to the restrictions the firewall imposes.


It is strictly true. The law states: "illegal to access foreign internet without government permission first."

The government opening up businesses to connect to services such as facebook or twitter to promote china businesses and so on is just the government giving permissions.

But for the every-day citizen, the use of a VPN is technically illegal as it circumvents the law.




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