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Are there any modern initiatives around mainframe? What is IBM doing to promote it more to new generations?

Are there any startups doing anything related to the mainframe?

I was always fascinated by the tech around mainframe and am even thinking about moving into that space. I can imagine that a barrier to entry is high... or?




Mainframes are interesting to me (but I think a lot of things are interesting) :)

I found this one site with links to books on mainframes: http://www.mainframes.com/Books.html

If IBM is investing in 14nm tech for mainframes, it's not dead tech. A quick search revealed the following:

""" 70% of the world's production data, and 55% of world's enterprise transactions, took place on mainframes (2016) """

http://ibmmainframes.com/wiki/who-uses-mainframes.html


For an individual, yes - the barrier to entry is high. But I don't really see any way to change that, due to the very nature of mainframes: systems of complex and highly tuned special purpose submodules. This is the first thing you'll notice when digging through the literature, lots of brand new non-standardized acronyms for purpose-built subsystems. While a lot of it certainly has the taste of needless market segmentation, there is a lot of unique stuff that is genuinely scarce. Yes, you can get a second hand mainframe at a bargain price - but your really don't want to unless it is part of a much larger tax advantaged living museum project. There are emulators though, Hercules and zPDT.

My interests led me more to the Power architecture, which is weird enough to hold my interest - while still being practical at the individual scale. For example, the z15 comes with the NXU compression accelerator - the p9 has a similar (same?) NX coprocessor. You'll also find market segmentation here, and IBM would do well to knock it off with the weird PowerVM/NV/Opal/ePAR/LPAR stuff. Their performance monitoring and scheduling stuff is really awesome, and it is unfortunate that they use it to segment product offerings. It isn't as ugly as Intel's ECC games, but it still isn't a good look.


There's the Open Mainframe project, and Zowe I guess:

https://github.com/zowe

If you're interested, there's also the Master the Mainframe initiative. Mainly a competition for those in school, but the 'learning system' offers year-long free access to those of us to whom education is a distant memory...

https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the...


The barrier is not always high https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45X4VP8CGtk


Are you trying to say that it is wide and heavy as well :)

Joke aside, how are people actually getting started in this space? And more importantly, is it "worth it" financially? Is the mainframe skill shortage ("dreaded COBOL"?) a real thing?


> How are people actually getting started in this space?

Depends on your needs. Do you need near-perfect uptime? Most don't; their products aren't so critical, so they settle for a cheaper option. Do want to run a data center? Most don't; it's so much easier to push code to AWS and let them handle the infrastructure demands.

Startups historically survive because of adaptation and speed. The mainframe may not fit those operational principles, though that's up to a given startup (see below for industries which might benefit the most from a mainframe).

> Is it "worth it" financially?

The System Z series excels at transactions and updating records. Industries which deal extensively with these types of computations are banks, airlines, credit card companies, stock brokers, insurance companies, and certainly others. If you're in one of those lines of business, you probably should look into mainframes. More generally, if you need to maintain system state at all costs, mainframes are probably a good option.

I would not recommend mainframes for heavy, laborous computing loads (scientific computing, rendering boxes, etc.)

> Is the mainframe skill shortage ("dreaded COBOL"?) a real thing?

If a company wants to add a new feature to or fix a bug in a 40 year-old COBOL program, they'll likely have a hard time finding a young programmer, sure. Some older COBOL coders are helping fill the game while they can. Don't forget that the System Z mainframes have a level of backwards compatibility that makes x86 blush; your COBOL program will certainly still run.

I wager most new programs (<15 years) have been written with Java or C++, given z/OS supports more languages than COBOL: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/zosbasics/com.ib...

COBOL is dying, as it would be ridiculous to start a new project in COBOL. But many legacy systems still work, so why change them if they aren't broke?

I've made a comment in the past about IBM mainframes which you also might find informative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20978305


Thank you for the answer and sorry for not being clearer, but I was asking from the perspective of an engineer that wants to enter the mainframe world.

Let's say I want to focus on developing, maintaining and running the software on mainframes. How do I get "in" and are the skills paid well in comparison to a typical Java/.NET/C++ developer position nowadays?

You touched a bit on dying workforce when you mentioned COBOL. Is that dying workforce a real problem making it financially lucrative for the people willing to learn that stuff? Or is it just a myth?


IBM has an internal program for training people in Mainframe skills, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is called. I was going to be part of it when I graduated college, but then 08 happened and I was moved into Open Systems support after a RIF.

A google search showed me this page. https://www.ibm.com/case-studies/ibm-academic-initiative-sys...


> Let's say I want to focus on developing, maintaining and running the software on mainframes. How do I get "in" and are the skills paid well in comparison to a typical Java/.NET/C++ developer position nowadays?

IBM has quite a few training and certification programs available [1][2][3][4]. (Number four is quite interesting: a yearly competition designed to teach mainframe skills.)

From my understanding, Java development on the mainframe isn't significantly different from standard programming. Much of the heavy lifting happens in the background, and the programmer's focus then becomes learning the ins and outs.

As for compensation:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/mainframe-developer-salar...

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/software-developer-salary...

Mainframe dev: $74.9k. Software dev: $76.5k. Seems fairly equivalent.

> You touched a bit on dying workforce when you mentioned COBOL. Is that dying workforce a real problem making it financially lucrative for the people willing to learn that stuff? Or is it just a myth?

All good myths rely on elements of truth. :)

Will there be COBOL positions? Sure, for at least 10-20 years. But how do you want to set yourself up for additional growth?

If you invest time to learn traditional blacksmithing techniques, you might find a job at an interactive museum or on some specialized YouTube channel. Nothing wrong with that. Can't say there's lots of growth in that industry, though. The time and effort invested is about preserving the methods of the past. So, are you looking to preserve or create? Either option is perfectly fine, but each presents tradeoffs.

----

Sources:

[1] https://www.ibm.com/certify/

[2] https://www.ibm.com/case-studies/ibm-academic-initiative-sys...

[3] https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education

[4] https://masterthemainframe.com/




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