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> The healthcare system is free and very good if you have something life threatening but if not, you're looking at 2 month waiting time to see a specialist and there's no way I can be living and working with a health discomfort for that long so I pay up and see a private doctor.

The private doctor is still cheaper than copays/deductibles in the US. So that seems like a weird argument to make.




>The private doctor is still cheaper than copays/deductibles in the US.

Skilled workers in the US also earn way more than their European counterparts.


Emphasis on skilled. Most Americans make less, adjusted for inflation, than they did 40 years ago, they work longer hours, report more stress and are more productive (not necessarily by choice). The average American worker got shafted. Oh, and the American healthcare system costs people twice as much than average developed countries but with worse outcomes. Single-payer would save people money because of the collective negotiating leverage to push back against $100 insulin, $350 Epipens and $20 acetaminophen.

Furthermore, the US labor force participation rate never gets measured honestly or discussed because it's crazy.. there are untold millions and millions of men and women who have given up looking work. (Idle, disenfranchised people who don't have a future or families is a recipe for revolution, drug abuse and mass shootings.) Also, with automation, outsourcing and increased net population, there aren't as many good jobs as there were 40 years ago and there too many people for regular, less-skilled jobs.


Most Americans make less, adjusted for inflation, than they did 40 years ago

Only if you look at salary. If you look at total compensation, it’s grown quite a lot in the US, across income levels, adjusting for inflation.


What other components are there than salary, for the average non-tech worker?


Health insurance, life insurance, 401k match or other retirement benefits, etc.


The median income in the US has in fact been on the rise for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...


And unskilled workers earn less. So what?


Not necessarily. One datapoint: Amazon pays fulfilment workers $15/hour in the US, but €11/hour (~$12) in Germany


I imagine if you took a look at total compensation (vacation, PTO, insurance, maternity leave), stronger labor laws and other societal benefits such as cheaper college, those workers earning €11/hr would probably be able to save a lot more of it compared to their counterpart in the US.

And bonus if they get sick, they don't have to worry as much about losing their job and spiraling down into crippling debt.


How far does $15/hour go in some parts of the US vs €11/hour in some parts of Germany?


Even accounting for differences in income the cost for private doctor visits don’t make the US system cheaper.

Especially because the private doctors need to provide pricing before you go there, there is an actual market with reasonable prices.

Since someone will know before they go to a doctor what it will cost them it makes a huge difference to the US.


> And unskilled workers earn less.

Is this actually true?


Well, that's highly dependendent on what country in Europe you compare it to, as it can go both ways...


They also have a lot more student loans. Doctors graduate with $300k+ in student debt.




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