but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.
meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!
That’s certainly a matter of opinion (and as a German currently living in the UK I disagree): Having separate green light for pedestrians means that the average waiting time is much longer (both for cars and pedestrians) and, further, green light times are often kept much shorter. Having simultaneous green light for parallel car and pedestrian traffic does mean you have to pay more attention, and could theoretically increase the risk of accident (but I’m not convinced that this is the case in practice — in my experience it definitely isn’t!). But on the other hand it means that my time waiting at traffic lights is greatly reduced on average. I thus find the UK system a lot more frustrating.
I actually see the point of the UK system and think it’s entirely defensible. But both systems have their pros and cons.
I'm in the US, which also allows cars and peds to share a "green" in the same direction. I regularly have cars nearly run me over when they turn left/right while I'm in the crosswalk with a valid crossing signal. The problem, in the US, is that drivers don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. They are completely self-centered.
If there were penalties for hitting pedestrians or cyclists, this might change. I presume Germany has stricter enforcement of rules with regard to vehicle/ped/cycle interaction. In the US, there is almost none. Hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is almost always deemed an accident, with no fault assigned (or, if fault is assigned, a $200 fine is the result, not loss of driving privilege).
> Hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is almost always deemed an accident, with no fault assigned (or, if fault is assigned, a $200 fine is the result, not loss of driving privilege).
This is common also in Sweden, but parallel green still generally works well. So enforcement cannot be the only explanation.
Two other things come to mind...
- culturally, people in the US just don't walk for transport (outside NYC and a few other places). So, when they get in cars, they don't think to look for pedestrians or cyclists.
- the roads are more car-centric than European cities and suburbs. Crossings are poorly timed, poorly lighted, too wide, in the wrong places, etc.
”in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.”
3-phase signalled intersections (where pedestrians get a green signal to cross in all directions) are a relatively new development in the UK. They’re certainly common in London but I’d be very surprised if they’re rolled out to all intersections the UK.
I don't think that was the point they were making. They were saying that, here in the UK, if the light is green for you as a pedestrian, there is a guarantee - legally enforceable - that traffic cannot cross your path. Unlike in, say, many other European cities and - ime - ny city.
Worst thing for pedestrians and cyclist is "turn right on red" rule.
If you want to turn right (in right handed flow) you can enter intersection on red (in Poland when additional green right arrow is lit up) but you have to yield to everybody, also pedestrians (that have green at the time).
In theory you are required to stop before you enter on red but most drivers don't and some don't even slow down more than is physically required to make a turn.
So if a cyclist or a pedestrian appears in path of such car unexpectedly (because there might be high vehicle waiting for green on the next lane) it is a dangerous situation.
Right on green is pretty brutal as well. A cyclist is going to keep moving forward and completely depends on the visibility of the drivers turn signal, assuming they decide to use it.
Been around in other cities for as long as I remember. The nearest junction to where I grew up in Glasgow in the 80's allowed crossing in all directions at one time.
You have to stop at crossings yes, and it makes sense. Usually when there's a red light in one direction, the one perpendicular to it will have a green light.
Dublin is similar to the UK as far as I could tell, and honestly it felt like one of the worst design of traffic lights ever. Waiting for 2-3 minutes on a red light is pretty common, and green only lasts for 20-30 seconds. It's an absolute disaster for pedestrians, and as a result everyone jaywalks like crazy. I would say other countries have this right, even if drivers do have to give way to pedestrians immediately after a turn.
On Dublin: 20 seconds green for pedestrians is on the generous side. "Scramble" type light sequences for pedestrians are few. Often only one or two arms of junctions have any pedestrian signal, which probably further confuses visitors. Cyclists selectively disregard road markings/signs/signals and frequently compete with pedestrians during crossings.
In some areas extra lights for new cycle paths operate asynchronously to the road traffic lights, these can be within 25m, worsening the gridlock and the pedestrian invasion of junctions.
In city centre areas a 30kmph speed limit is in force. A green for a motorist only ever means "proceed with caution", and a pedestrian already crossing the road at a junction always has priority (something many drivers don't seem aware of). Urban road user mortality is ~50% higher than Sweden, still relatively low compared to the EU overall, but the pending 2019 stats are worse.
if you combine the red light for pedestrians with no fine for jaywalking if you don't cause issues, then the british/irish model starts to make sense :)
This is the case here - many pedestrian crossings aren't guarded by lights but by stripes on the road. There is one beside my work which is incredibly poorly timed. It turns green for pedestrians about 10 seconds after a traffic light goes green for cars further down the road - where it takes about 9 seconds for cars to accelerate to ~40kph and reach the crossing. I've personally seen one person get hit (driver sped off, obviously) and countless near-misses because of this, and I've no doubt it will get someone killed one day.
"Green at the same time" in the UK is flashing-amber and means "if free, proceed with caution".
Nearby, in a shopping/student district, there is a dual-carriage-away with high pedestrian crossing flow. It is only green for pedestrians for a few seconds before going to flashing-amber for both. It makes some sense as it's so wide that many cars can pass while people are still crossing.
However, as a pedestrian, I really hate it and feel unsafe. It rewards driver aggression because they treat it as green try to intimidate pedestrians by racing at any that are crossing or thinking about it.
Ultimately I think it angers both parties because each one thinks they have right of way and the other party is in error when really the flashing-amber has made it ambiguous and turns it into "aggressor wins".
I heard that the convention was to set the duration of the amber stage to something around the time it takes a fast-walking pedestrian to cross, so that you could start crossing near the end of a pedestrian green signal without being on the road during green for drivers. Unfortunately at some crossings these days, the full duration of the green signal isn't long enough for me to fully cross before it turns to amber (and I probably walk about 4x faster than your garden-variety old dear with a stick).
but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.
meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!