> I'd get one if I didn't have crushing doubt about their ability to service their cars. Or stay in business long-term.
Are you serious? That false narrative fueled by FUD has been the talking point by short-sellers since 2008 (Only Tesla and Ford survived the 2008 market crash btw).
It's now 2019 and you would think people would know any better.
Tesla bonds are rated deeeep into junk. Comparatively Toyota is high in the investment grade as are VW's. Having junk long term bonds is not great, having junk short term ones is downright scary. This is even worse considering it's a company that so desperately needs the ability to get cheap loans. It's not a narrative without its facts, it's a speculation based on concerning evidence.
The first point is VERY valid. There are tons of stories of people waiting weeks for a simple door repair.
The second one is kinda whatever. I don't actually fear they will go out of business. But neither do I have infinite confidence in their business model.
Can we please stop with ridiculous BS about evil shortsellers? Would you believe that it's martians spreading "fud" about Tesla, if Elon says so? And that would be at least as accurate as the shorts nonsense.
> Can we please stop with ridiculous BS about evil shortsellers?
Have you been living under a rock? I didn't even know about the insane short interest and the countess $TSLAQ Twitter trolls until I became a Tesla owner. Which is apparently been there since the early days.
Is it BS because it does not fit your narrative? or is it a baseless claim? If so, can you please cite sources?
> Would you believe that it's martians spreading "fud" about Tesla, if Elon says so?
Is that your attempt at insulting my intelligence? I look at everything objectively... I typically stay quiet if I don't know enough on a particular topic or don't have anecdotes.
There is no "insane short interest" in Tesla. Just because Elon might want you to think that it is some nefarious conspiracy and not Tesla's incompetency in many aspects of making a car (pretty much anything pother than making the best available electric powertrain, really) and his personal douchebaggery that are causing problems. That canard about Tesla being the most shorted stock on the planet since the beginning of times has been debunked so many times it's not evenv interesting anymore.
I have no interest in discussing your intelligence, but but once you start bringing out "shortseller fud" your credibility goes straight out of the window. Even claiming that Elon is behaving like a jerk because he's hiding from hit squads hired by Saudi Aramco would be both more plausible and make more sense.
Yes, please, go on. I am sure you realize that when talking of insane, or otherwise, interest in Tesla, showing numbers for Tesla alone is absolutely useless. According to [0] Tesla doesn't even make it to the top of the second page, and quite a few companies well ahead of it are real large businesses and household names.
Repeating the few tired talking points ("it's the shorts!", "you just didn't drive one", "pecking at 5 buttons in random positions on a touch screen is easier than pressing one physical button") just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
> showing numbers for Tesla alone is absolutely useless.
If you don't know how to read financial data, then probably. The site you linked contradicts what you've been whining about... According to it, the current short interest is currently at 29%.. By definition anything above 20% is considered to be extremely high.
Looking at your post history, it's also very clear that you have great disdain not only for Tesla but Elon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy the cars of like the guy. But here you are, shitting on people who love a product.
>Repeating the few tired talking points...just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
How is this impacting your daily life? Does it bother you that much that it's making it hard for you to sleep at night? Or do you just get off on spouting anger?
I don't go around telling other people who love a certain product/brand to shut up. Just because you don't like something, others don't have to share the same opinion as you... Even more so, if it's not based on facts but emotion.
Yes, I do have great disdain for Elon, he's an absolutely terrible human being. Thanks for digging it up.
You may define "extremely high" at any level you want, but you don't get to claim that Tesla is shorted to any kind of unusual, extreme, never seen before level. None of those companies gets to claim that "it's all shorts' fault" either.
You driving a Tesla probably affects me positively (well, apart from the taxpayer fleecing angle anyway), but the complete lack of intellectual honesty on the part of Tesla supporters is... not even annoying, it's rather amusing. Where else do you get to see people seriously claiming that it is more convenient and safer to hunt and peck several buttons on a touch screen that pressing one on a door? Only in Tesla world!
> Yes, I do have great disdain for Elon, he's an absolutely terrible human being. Thanks for digging it up.
Ohh.. Interesting. So not only is that you have severe anger issues, but you're also holier than thou. Geez guy, get a grip. What have you done for humanity? Look at a mirror and yourself that question.
But you know...I truly feel sorry for you. I hope you find peace, whatever pain you're suffering inside.
It sure was! They had some troubles delivering the very first Roadsters and Elon had to use his own money to keep the company afloat (also SpaceX) and continue making payroll.
> A 10% miss in sales results in Billions in losses.
Well that's how the market inherently works you know? Tesla vehicle sales have also been rising year-over-year so your 10% miss does not apply.
False narrative? The "narrative" is their financial data. The fact that there is so much capital floating around to keep bad businesses afloat doesn't make them good businesses.
I'm sure the shady silicon valley dealings are isolated to WeWork, even though Tesla is being sued for similar self-dealing. Good luck!
If you take a closer look at their financial data, you'll find that it's quite a bit better than what people repeat.
In Fiscal Year 2018, they had positive operating cash flow of $2.1 billion. Part of the reason for the difference between accounting earnings (a loss) and actual cash flow is the huge depreciation charges ($1.9 billion) for historical capital expenditures, versus present-day cash outflows.
In that year, Tesla still spent a lot of cap-ex dollars on Model 3 capacity and battery capacity (to the tune of $2.3 billion), so overall cash flow was slightly negative - about $200 million for the year, off of $21 billion in revenue.
In the six months since then, they're reported additional positive operating cash flow: $224mm off of $10.9 billion in revenue.
This is a company experiencing 47% y/y revenue growth for the first half of the year. Yes, they're spending on cap-ex, but they are producing positive operating cash flow and their total operating+cap-ex cash flow is running a little in the red, but <1% of revenues.
And in context, they have $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in short term assets.
For a company not at significant financial risk why is their credit rating so low? Investors shouldn't be concerned about repayment if Tesla is likely to remain solvent.
I think this means that the Gross Profit was $4B, not 25. And Gross Profit is Revenue - Cost of Goods Sold [0], so they may still have had losses after R&D and expansion.
The EBITDA number of $2.33B also seems reasonable as a "last four quarters" measure here [1] (which actually lists $2.35B).
Partly I think this is motivated by the law that gives tax breaks to companies that show losses. So then no big surprise that many tech companies show losses, regardless of their corporate health. Amazon is one; they've almost never shown a profit ever, and when they have it has been exceedingly slight (surely an accounting "mistake"). Yet they are still in business over 20 years later, and that success has catapulted multiple individuals into the billionaire range. Shady? Definitely. Too much capital? Clearly not, since Amazon has out-performed any possible influx of capital.
There is clearly some dark art in accounting, but I don't think it's always because the companies are covering up bad business. It might be because they're trying to make as little taxable profit as possible.
Are you serious? That false narrative fueled by FUD has been the talking point by short-sellers since 2008 (Only Tesla and Ford survived the 2008 market crash btw).
It's now 2019 and you would think people would know any better.