Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

It says:

In working with CBP, ICE, or ORR, Google would be trading its integrity for a bit of profit, and joining a shameful lineage. We have only to look to IBM’s role working with the Nazis during the Holocaust to understand the role that technology can play in automating mass atrocity.

That's pretty direct. Working with ICE would be a "mass atrocity" and "we have only to look at IBM's role working with the Nazis during the Holocaust to understand".

You say, "It doesn't compare CBP to the Holocaust" but I'm going to have to disagree. Why bring up the Nazis at all if they aren't making that comparison, which a plain reading of their words absolutely seems to do?

They're held enmasse in cages in warehouses which fits the textbook definition of a concentration camp

Huh, and now you seem to be doing it too.

No, it fits the definition of a prison, which is where you'd expect them to be given that they're breaking the law. Are all prisons concentration camps now? No, concentration camps are defined by the fact that they imprison identity-based groups of people who haven't committed any normal crime - e.g. political prisoners, disfavoured ethnic groups and so on.

It's surely not as bad as the Holocaust (which this petition doesn't claim what you claim it does), but it's not any better.

This last part is a puzzle to figure out. It's not as bad, but also not better - those two things are in contradiction.

I don't think comparing immigration laws of any country to the Holocaust is helpful at all, as that would make literally every country basically the same as the Third Reich, which they clearly are not. And not only those Googlers are doing it but now you are too!




It's not direct. IBM was just an example to illustrate the point of what CBP is doing in terms of following a lineage of supporting mass atrocity, of which indefinitely detaining people in an inadequate facility is a mass atrocity. They aren't making an equivalence like you claimed. They could've used Japanese internment camps. However, people know what the Holocaust is a lot more.

A prison is when you're incarcerated in your own cell and not a crowded cell. A prison provides adequate comfort that meets a minimum standard of care for inmates. A prison is not putting 30 people in one room, putting 30 people in a fenced in cage, providing lack of hygiene products and having 30 people to a single toilet. They're not provided space blankets and given no bed.

A concentration camp, by definition is deliberate incarceration of a minority group in inadequate facilities to sometimes perform labor or be exterminated. Going through this one by one:

1) They're being incarcerated even for claiming asylum (which is legal in the US) and crossing a port of entry is not illegal.

2) They're being incarcerated indefinitely which is also illegal.

3) They're an identity group (ie. of latin heritage). There are no detention centers for Canadian immigrants.

4) They're placed in warehouses in cages with little access to hygienic facilities. They're placed in mass groups with no beds or individual cells. This fits the inadequate facilities criteria.

So yes, that fits the definition of a concentration camp pretty clearly.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: