The science seems to point in the direction of whole plant foods, without any processing.
As an example, peas themselves are likely very healthy, but pea extracts like protein powder and pea-based fake meats are likely not.
This reductionistic nutritional approach where we are trying to extract from a food the one compound that makes it healthy simply does not work.
The food has thousands of compounds, that interact with each other in thousands of different ways. It's not the fiber either, that is another reductionist view, it's the whole food.
Just take a bunch of veggies, put them in the microwave for 10 minutes without any water and add your favorite seasoning: balsamic vinegar, tahini, miso paste, something sweet, and eat the whole food as it comes from the grocery, as fresh as possible.
You can do this to carrots, onions, broccoli, potatoes, onions, garlic, eggplant, pumpkin, butternut squash, almost any vegetable will steam in the microwave without any added water.
You can do this to pears and apples also, they are delicious in the microwave. Add beans, lentils, seeds, oats with red fruits for breakfast, and you are good to go.
The move to consuming more plant-based foods is a step in the right direction in terms of public health, but I'm a bit afraid of the backlash that will inevitably come when studies start coming out saying that these highly processed plant foods are not exactly healthy either.
What evolutionary advantage would plants have to be healthy for humans when eaten as a whole food? Even agriculture, the start of which is a mere blip on an evolutionary time scale, would be enough to destroy any symbiotic relationship (which, AFAIK has never been tested let alone proven). Agriculture tends to select for flavor/taste and not long term health benefits.
Also, are tahini and miso paste not processed foods? Does heating food not modify a food's chemical makeup?
Those are just examples of condiments used in very small amounts to give the food a better taste. Thaini is blended sesame seeds, miso is fermented soy and rice.
They have been made for thousands of years and are an example of minimally processed tasty condiments with high nutritional value, but 95% of the caloric value of the meal is the veggies not the condiments.
Pea protein extract is in comparison a much more heavily processed food.
Heating does impact the bioavailability (ease of absorption) of the nutrition in food, for some things it increases it while for others it decreases the nutrition.
We have evolved to eat cooked food for about 2 million years, our gut and teeth/jaw is adapted to cooked food.
Grains are also OK, but veggies and fruit are even better, the best cooking method is steaming to avoid forming carcinogenic compounds, that can be produced also by roasting in dry heat.
The same or similar. Well, chocolate is probably more. The point OP is trying to make is that yogurt has most of the stuff found in milk( different yogurts vary of course). But e.g. eating greek yogurt is way better than whey isolate.
I don't think that's all that strong. It's reasonably well-known that processes such as heating, drying, canning, and so on tend to reduce the nutritional value of fruits and vegetables - such as vitamin B and C, sulfurophane in broccoli, antioxidants in blueberries, etc. A quick google should reveal a ton of studies. So it might not be surprising that extracts have these kinds of issues as well.
I think OP is probably right that these meat substitutes are less healthy than eating veg in its raw form, but perhaps the question should be how they stack up nutritionally against the red meat they're replacing.
Yes, but not all processes destroy nutrients. Frozen vegetables are just as healthy as fresh (possibly more so). And it appears whey protein (in essence, protein extracted from dairy sources) is very healthy; again arguably healthier than an equivalent amount of protein obtained directly from "raw" dairy sources (cheese, milk, etc.).
Obviously pea protein will be missing out on some nutrients found in the parts of the pea which were discarded, so may not be as healthy as raw peas, but I understood OP to be saying that pea protein may be actively unhealthy, and indeed, that anything but unprocessed "whole" vegetables is unhealthy. That's seems unsupported by current science.
> pea extracts like protein powder and pea-based fake meats are likely not
>> That's an awfully strong statement. Do you have any evidence or cite?
It depends. Peas belong to the Fabaceae family or Leguminosae that is a big family of creatures expert in alkaloid's design.
Sweet Peas are in the genus Pisum, that is closely related with the wild peas Lathyrus. Lathyrism is a well known neurological disease. Is a permanent damage triggered by eating too many peas from Lathyrus and related genuses. For survivalism and foraging purposes, wild peas must be put in the "not edible thing unless really fainting" category. And only in small quantitites. Not even cooked.
Thus, flour of raw peas should be a little poisonous also until cooked. Workers should have been provided with accurate protection against breathing accidentally the raw stuff day after day (and should assure to wear it). Neurological damages are permanent and not funny.
By the same reason, even if seems convenient and fast to just make a smoothie with raw pea flour you must assure to cook it before to eat it (OR that was yet cooken by the maker before to sell it).
I don't disagree with you that it's probably a really good thing to eat whole plant foods...but when you bring up something like miso, or vinegar...what are these but a further processing of whole plant foods? And why are these OK, but something like a pea extract or a pea-based protein not healthy (and I have no idea if they are or aren't).
Those are condiments, used in minimal amounts to give more flavor to the food. They do not make the bulk of the calories, maybe 1 to 5% of a meal.
This is unlike a pea protein isolate burger, which makes a huge part of the meal. Also, there is the level of processing, pea protein isolate is much more processed than fermented condiments like vinegar or mison.
Yes, veggies taste great once you learn how to treat them. As you say all the science points to eating veggies whole, and they're so cheap! I have bags of frozen veggies for whenever I'm feeling lazy, chuck in a can of beans, or a bit of meat if you're so inclined, maybe a bit of rice. Add some sauce, done.
Yes, it's so simple. Frozen is also very healthy, but fresh is also very simple with the microwave. I'm yet to find a veggie that I can't throw in the microwave for 5 to 12 minutes and it's cooked perfectly even without added water.
Yet, somehow this is not common knowledge. People think that veggies need to be roasted in the oven for 45 minutes, or boiled to 20 minutes and it's just not true.
As an example, peas themselves are likely very healthy, but pea extracts like protein powder and pea-based fake meats are likely not.
This reductionistic nutritional approach where we are trying to extract from a food the one compound that makes it healthy simply does not work.
The food has thousands of compounds, that interact with each other in thousands of different ways. It's not the fiber either, that is another reductionist view, it's the whole food.
Just take a bunch of veggies, put them in the microwave for 10 minutes without any water and add your favorite seasoning: balsamic vinegar, tahini, miso paste, something sweet, and eat the whole food as it comes from the grocery, as fresh as possible.
You can do this to carrots, onions, broccoli, potatoes, onions, garlic, eggplant, pumpkin, butternut squash, almost any vegetable will steam in the microwave without any added water.
You can do this to pears and apples also, they are delicious in the microwave. Add beans, lentils, seeds, oats with red fruits for breakfast, and you are good to go.
The move to consuming more plant-based foods is a step in the right direction in terms of public health, but I'm a bit afraid of the backlash that will inevitably come when studies start coming out saying that these highly processed plant foods are not exactly healthy either.