Do you think you have a right to dictate others use of pronouns, or maybe that they're wrong to use a pronoun that matches your sex (as it appears to them, whether that's factual it counter-factual)?
I have a beard, and people always comment on it but I'd rather they not define me by it (honestly, I'm not making this up) - it's hair that grows on me, that's it - should I get to tell them they can't say I'm hairy/bearded (despite that being obviously true)?
I'll engage on this, assuming these questions were asked in good faith.
> should I get to tell them they can't say I'm hairy/bearded (despite that being obviously true)?
You can say, "I'd rather you not refer to me/define me by my beard." Do they have to respect that? Of course not.
Does not respecting that mean that they are now knowingly violating a boundary you've specifically asked them to respect? Yep. Sure does.
Does knowingly/deliberately violating someone's boundaries make you an asshole? Maybe? Probably? At the very least it's likely to make that person like you less.
> Do you think you have a right to dictate others use of pronouns?
I have the right to indicate that my pronouns are they/them, just as you can (presumably) indicate yours are he/him. When people deliberately violate that (e.g., if people started calling you 'the bearded lady' or used she to refer to you) I believe I am well within my right to feel disrespected, just as if they had used any other verbal insult. I see it in a similar light to nicknames. If my name was William, and I tell people to please call me William, and someone continually refers to me as Billy despite being asked not to, then I'm going to feel disrespected.
I get sir/he/him/his/etc all the time. When it's people I'm close to (colleagues, friends, etc.) I'll gently offer a correction and move on. e.g. "Sorry, my pronouns are they/them, please, continue." I don't bother correcting the gas station attendant or the coffee shop barista.
I generally assume most times the wrong pronouns aren't coming from a place of malice -- either someone just forgot or they don't know. I give people a lot of latitude.
I don't really have anything to add here but I just wanted to say I appreciate your tact and attitude.
Especially online, it's very easy to just assume bad faith when responding to something like that, but I think the internet would be a much better place if people were more likely to keep cool and stay civil even in the face of comments which they suspect to be in bad faith.
It seems impossible to ask questions on some subjects here (on HN, I don't really use other mass fora); which makes it very hard to learn the scope of someone's position. 'Assume good faith' has to be the basis of online discussion -- I'm really not sure what's wrong with the questions.
>"in the face of comments which they suspect to be in bad faith" //
I asked two questions and avoided making comments (other than to set the basis for the second question. People often don't appear to read questions as questions.
It's like if someone said "So, do you just not like static typing?" and the responders appear to think the person said "dynamic typing is crap and you're crap if you like it" when in fact they're just interested in someone's rationale for avoiding statically typed languages.
I go to a group where the other adults are mostly always mums or other older women. The leaders almost always refer to the group as "mums", but I just accept it assuming they're not being exclusionary -- I guess that's my choice though. Funnily one of my children has started calling me mummy, which is a little weird to me but not at all disconcerting.
As I reflect on that, I wonder; you say you feel disrespected when called by a pronoun that's contrary to your preference (presumably only if you've already requested the person address you differently), as if it's an insult. Surely it's just an element of language combined with your outer appearance. If you feel being called by the pronoun of one sex or the other (or either) to be disrespecting, that would seem to imply you feel people who are correctly identified by those terms are some how lesser? Perhaps "disrespected" is the wrong term, or my understanding of it is wrong. I guess if you call me "the bearded lady" but it's not malicious, then it's not disrespecting (for me, from my perspective; I'm not trying to tell you how to feel, obviously).
I guess I still don't really get why a strangers pronoun usage matters?
One last aside, if you could do away with gendered pronouns altogether, would that be better/worse? I guess you can't identify as neutrally pronouned if there's no gendering of pronouns?? (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderl...).
Do you think you have a right to dictate others use of pronouns, or maybe that they're wrong to use a pronoun that matches your sex (as it appears to them, whether that's factual it counter-factual)?
I have a beard, and people always comment on it but I'd rather they not define me by it (honestly, I'm not making this up) - it's hair that grows on me, that's it - should I get to tell them they can't say I'm hairy/bearded (despite that being obviously true)?