"I dumb it down for my audience

and double my dollars

they criticize me for it

yet they still yell "Holla"

If skills sold

Truth be told

I'd probably be

Lyricly

Talib Kweli"

The glorification of drug dealing and gun carrying is a huge turn off album after album.

But I did five mil

I ain't be rhyming like Common since

When your senses got so much in common

And you've been hustlin since your inception

Fuck perception go with what makes sense"

He is essentially saying that he started dumbing it down after doing "Vol. 2 Hard Knock Life" - which sold five million copies.

--Misquoted and without attribution. Rolling Stone, maybe.

The way he makes "playin'" sound like "plane" and "plain" is characteristic of his whole lyrical style.

  Adapt to Serve Your Market
  Be a Renegade
  Stay in Food and Beverage
  Be a Business, Man
  Data is King

Another line I've always liked, about how you run with action, not the mouth: Now all the little soldiers wanna roll with my team, Cause I ain't sold em a dream, I just showed em the cream

Either way it's going to sound dumb explaining it to your grandchildren.

The motivation for me / was them telling me what I could not be (So Ambitious)

I'm on the practice field running two-a-days / so I don't drop the ball when it's threw my way (Off That)

Also, what you consider juvenile, others may just consider 'simple'. Jay-Z has frequently been criticized for his relatively simple lyrics and rhythm structure. But that's part of the reason why its so popular, AND inspirational. You don't need to sit there for a minute trying to wrap your head around it. You just get it.

#1 - You're treating the quoted text as (I quote) "a quote". It's not. It's a small piece of a much larger whole. (I see your point- but it's wrong. I will elaborate in the next bullet).

#2 - Like the first statement- it's a mistake for you to speak factually on something so subjective. We're talking about art here, right? "Period" is especially offensive since clearly so many people disagree. Juvenile and simple are never synonymous. That's not to say they can't live mutually, but that certainly is not "synonymous". Period. Just the fact that people have agreed suggests he is delivering the emotion he intends to with his art. Unless, of course, you can tell me what his true intentions were with the lyric?

#3 - I'm going to make a fair assumption that you've lived a relatively privileged life. By this- I mean I'm pretty sure you didn't grow up in Bedstuy. I certainly don't believe that relieves him of his poor judgement, but I hope it helps invoke some situational empathy. Likewise, do you consider yourself not praiseworthy because of the mistakes you've made?

Edit - I assume a downvote one minute after a post is either accidental or negligent.

#1 - You're treating the quoted text as (I quote) "a quote". It's not. It's a small piece of a much larger whole.

Hmm - last I checked, a small piece of a larger whole IS a quote. Webster's definitively settles this in my favor.

#2 - No - there is no subjectivity involved in the claim that his lyrics are 'juvenile' and 'simple' especially when the man himself has said so on several occasions, both in verse and out. (See the song: Moment Of Clarity) If the artist himself says he 'dumb downed' his lyrics, I think its purely factual to then say his lyrics are 'simple'.

#3 - Pardon me, you don't know a damned thing about me or how I grew up. So no, your assumption is not fair. I've seen the gutter in my life. I've lived in places that I gather you are only familiar with through Jay-z songs. So forgive me if I take a particular offense to this comment.

Situational empathy? Are you kidding me? I suspect this kind of careless, 'there are are few better options' mentality stems from a brutal ignorance of what inner-city life is really like. So let me just help you out by saying there are thousands of kids from these terrible situations, (many of whom I work with weekly), who do not deal drugs, who stay in school, who pursue scholarship, who do not idolize Jay-z and his calling cards, thug-culture, gun violence, promiscuity, drugs, and death. Unfortunately for all of us, these kids are in the vast minority.

My argument stems from my assumption that there are also thousands of kids from terrible situations, who don't deal drugs, who stay in school, and do idolize Jay-Z.

If I'm wrong in the above assumption, then you're entirely right; my argument has no ground. Perhaps my optimism is blinding. If my assumption is correct, then is it not safe to say that there are other more compelling forces than Jay-Z leading youth into drugs or crime? The italicized is the point that I am trying to make entirely.

I don't think we're disagreeing on facts here. By situational empathy I'm not suggesting Jay-Z has no other choices. It's just my personal opinion that I would rather be inspired by Jay-Z's ambition to overcome such an unfortunate situation, rather than to condemn him for his past.

So I'll assume you have been perfect your entire life? He raps about what he knows and who he his, and he wasn't perfect. If you have listened to more than a lyric or two off the radio you would hear him rapping about being young and stupid and growing up and maturing.

That doesn't make one praiseworthy; regretting your sins doesn't erase them. If he's really had a past violent enough that he's attempted murder a few times--and I don't know that that's true and am making no claim it is--then he's not worthy of praise no matter how good he is for the rest of his life, he still did it. Most people grow up without any such severe regrets. Most do stupid things while young, not horrible things.

Your expressed belief seems to reflect the attitude of the current American criminal justice system, a system that is very bad at rehabilitation: it tends to turn minor offenders into hardened criminals.

Any improvement is worthy of praise. Any contribution is worthy of gratitude. Denying that to someone because past mistakes is very disingenuous. Pretending that people are static characters like some bad sitcom is short-sighted and naïve.

There is no good and evil, only people with different motives. If you've never grown up wondering where you're going to live next week or where your next meal is going to come from, then you can't understand the thinking of someone who has, and you're in no place to judge their actions.

Yes, people change and grow, that doesn't mean you get to leave your past behind and pretend it never happened. You murder someone, you're a murderer forever, not just until you realize it was wrong.

> There is no good and evil, only people with different motives.

I don't agree, though I'd never use the words good and evil, I'd use right and wrong and some things are objectively wrong.

> If you've never grown up wondering where you're going to live next week or where your next meal is going to come from, then you can't understand the thinking of someone who has, and you're in no place to judge their actions.

I did grow up that way, and I am in a place to state my opinion on their actions.

The problem maybe that he glorifies drug dealers to a certain extent. And I am sure you will agree, that we need less drug dealers, and need to make it less attractive.

...?

I upvoted the comment above yours because I see his (and other rappers) influence firsthand among friends and family members and it's really very depressing. Sometimes I don't know how I justify listening to his music...

People also tend to hear themselves in music. They hear the parts they relate with and block out the parts they don't. I hear Jay-Z and hear a story about a kid who had nothing, did what he had to do to survive and kept working till he made it. You don't even have to go that deep into his tracks to start getting a lot of good motivational lyrics. He has an entire song (with some Notorious Big dubbed in) talking about never getting lazy to keep working and 'treat your last like your first.'

My 1st song ... favorite of mine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_1st_Song

He does obviously have a responsibility to make sure he is a positive role model; but the fact that his lyrics very clearly reference his past in relation to his present- makes me wonder why anyone would focus their energy on emulating his past when they can see the success his positive ambition has brought him.

Lastly, can you cite your sample of "many young black men"? Does this source also include the amount of young black men who were inspired by his lyrics to overcome?

I actually DON'T think it's his responsibility to be a role model. BUT I think it's wrong to glorify his success without saying something about the path he walked/walks to obtain it. He is 40-something and STILL writing lyrics about selling drugs.

As for citing examples, I'm sorry, I haven't been keeping a running log of the number of funerals I've been to, the guys I've known who've gotten shot, the women (including myself) who've been physically harassed by guys trying to re-enact the latest video, the children who are lost to drug addicted parents, and every other societal ramification that comes from supporting hip hop culture without qualifying/recognizing the damage it does to the black community. I live it, I think that's enough.

I understand this, and it is also exactly my point. I have not been exposed to the elements that really any impoverished America (or wherever) faces. This is why I'm not affected in such a negative way if I listen to Jay-Z. The fact that there is differentiation at all is what makes it subjective.

Rereading my post; I could have been more clear. I absolutely did not intend to suggest that the subjectivity was the reason for the pressures of any different cultures. I am suggesting that these pressures where the reason for the emulation.

Which is obviously unfortunate, but I don't believe his fault. There are lots of pressures encouraging black males to be hard, I just don't think Jay-Z is one of them. Even compared to other relatively tame mainstream rappers (say, 50 cent).

If I can make a relevant reference (sometimes I cannot): consider any artist who has ever been scrutinized for the "negativity" of their production.

If I can make a relevant analogy (sometimes I cannot): "lessons learned".

If a quote needs more context to have impact, then it is a shitty quote...

Is that why you conveniently left off the tail of your own quote? For "impact"?

"He says he'll always rap about variations on the same themes: drug hustling, business boasts, luxury hopscotching from Gucci to Louis Vuitton to the new Dior suit he says is a perfect fit.They're all narrative devices:"

There are options that don't involve poisoning the very community you claim to care about through drugs and promoting a lifestyle/"profession" that can get someone killed or sent to jail.

I am not saying anybody gets a pass for anything.

I am saying that the comment above has simply substituted a set of new rules for when someone can be praised (e.g. "you can't have ever been a drug dealer") in place of the old ones (e.g. "you can't be black") with the same puritanical intent of undermining anything the target of the criticism might have actually accomplished.

It's tempting to think that this acts as a filter, keeping the riff-raff out of the pantheon of saints, but in practice it only rewards large-scale ignorance, subterfuge, and mythologizing.

Jay-Z promotes ambition, through whatever means necessary.

Lots of things get people killed and/or sent to jail.

Zuckerberg profits off the millions of college students "dumb enough" to waste their precious time "socializing" instead of studying like our society says they should. And don't forget the videos of myspace obsessed children and the like, I'm sure there are people out there who have died of social media related things, it's just not as easily attributed as a cause of death.

Similarly Jay-Z just happened to profit from people "dumb enough" to buy the drugs he sold. It was an opportunity, and he capitalized on it.

You have to work with what you got. It's just the way the world works. I'm pretty sure if you put Zuckerberg in the hood, he'd turn out to be a dealer and give Jay-Z computers in his childhood and he'd probably be a hacker. It's a combination of the ambitious troublemaker personality with the environment that makes what these people have become.

In a sense, you could say Jay hacked the coke game, and was smart(lucky?) enough to get out before he got into too much trouble.

Exactly. ::sigh::

Here it is:

My First BillG Review http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html

"In my BillG review meeting, the whole reporting hierarchy was there, along with their cousins, sisters, and aunts, and a person who came along from my team whose whole job during the meeting was to keep an accurate count of how many times Bill said the F word. The lower the f-count, the better."