Trump isn't threatening to expel the ethnic Mexican with US citizenship operating an auto repair shop in Alabama,
Actually he is threatening to expel US citizens who are Mexican who he doesn’t believe have valid birth certificates. Not because he believes they are forged, but because the babies were delivered by midwives at the border....
> Actually he is threatening to expel US citizens who are Mexican who he doesn’t believe have valid birth certificates. Not because he believes they are forged, but because the babies were delivered by midwives at the border....
According to your article the passports were denied for the same reasons during the Bush and Obama administrations. Because the midwives actually admitted to committing fraud.
At that point the affected people will have to come in and sort things out. What's the alternative? Don't sort things out? It's a huge pain but you can blame the midwives for that.
> ICE also detained an American citizen that was speaking Spanish.
Law enforcement is constantly looking for a stupid pretext to check your papers. "Speaking Spanish" is a stupid pretext to check your papers.
But you're claiming it's evidence of racism. If they had detained a white person for speaking Spanish, would that also be racist? If they had detained a Mexican person for "speeding" (but really for being Mexican), would that be less racist?
The specific pretext isn't the issue. The issue is that they're using stupid pretexts to check papers. But that's a very broad problem with law enforcement in general.
And notice what you're doing with it -- speaking Spanish is the cultural rather than racial characteristic.
> Not to mention that whole Obama’s is not a US citizen but he is a “secret Muslim” trying to spread Sharia law.
This is kind of my point. "Trump is a jackass" and "Trump is a racist" are not the same thing unless you're just defining racist to mean jackass, in which case everybody knows that already.
> If it were about socialism and not race, why is he so enamored by people from Norway?
Because they aren't immigrating here (in violation of the law) in numbers that could change the outcome of elections.
Also because the people who immigrate legally are more likely to be affluent (and thus more conservative) than their home countries, the people who sneak across borders the opposite.
According to your article the passports were denied for the same reasons during the Bush and Obama administrations. Because the midwives actually admitted to committing fraud.
At that point the affected people will have to come in and sort things out. What's the alternative? Don't sort things out?
It’s that whole innocent until proven guilty. The government has to prove guilt on an individual basis.
From the article.
The same midwives who provided fraudulent birth certificates also delivered thousands of babies legally in the United States.
Law enforcement is constantly looking for a stupid pretext to check your papers. "Speaking Spanish" is a stupid pretext to check your papers.
You really believe that law enforcement looks for “stupid pretext” to stop blond haired blue eyed white people?
This is kind of my point. "Trump is a jackass" and "Trump is a racist" are not the same thing unless you're just defining racist to mean jackass, in which case everybody knows that already.
Was Reagan ever called a “secret Muslim” when he was sending weapons to Osama backed Mujihadeen and Iran during the Iran Contra scandal?
Also, the people who immigrate legally are more likely to be more affluent (and thus more conservative) than their home countries. People who sneak across borders the opposite.
Right because people from Norway wouldn’t support a large social safety net, government run health care, and free college education....
> It’s that whole innocent until proven guilty. The government has to prove guilt on an individual basis.
Which is the thing that happens after they deny your passport, in the same way that it's the thing that happens after they arrest you for a crime. "Innocent until proven guilty" means you go free if they can't prove you're guilty, not that you don't have to go through the process.
> You really believe that law enforcement looks for “stupid pretext” to stop blond haired blue eyed white people?
Finding a stupid pretext to conduct a search is literally 90% of what they do all day. Ask all the meth heads who got pulled over for a minor traffic violation and ended up charged with possession.
> Was Reagan ever called a “secret Muslim” when he was sending weapons to Osama backed Mujihadeen and Iran during the Iran Contra scandal?
What does that have to do with racism? Your argument can't be that no one has ever made a false claim against a white person.
> Right because people from Norway wouldn’t support a large social safety net, government run health care, and free college education....
The people from Norway are going from a country with more government benefits to one with less. If they liked what they had then why did they leave?
Which is the thing that happens after they deny your passport, in the same way that it's the thing that happens after they arrest you for a crime. "Innocent until proven guilty" means you go free if they can't prove you're guilty, not that you don't have to go through the process.
You still have to have some type of evidence specifically linking you to a crime. The midwives never gave names of specific people.
What does that have to do with racism? Your argument can't be that no one has ever made a false claim against a white person.
We aren’t talking about any random White person. We are talking about a President of the United States who specifically helped “radical Muslims” and a President who was accused of being a “secret Muslim” before he was ever elected.
The people from Norway are going from a country with more government benefits to one with less. If they liked what they had then why did they leave?
> You still have to have some type of evidence specifically linking you to a crime. The midwives never gave names of specific people.
Which is why they ultimately get their passports after the government has conducted their investigation. For the people who weren't actually born here the government should be able to find evidence of that, e.g. the mother is not a US citizen and her passport wasn't stamped into the US before the child was born.
> We aren’t talking about any random White person. We are talking about a President of the United States who specifically helped “radical Muslims” and a President who was accused of being a “secret Muslim” before he was ever elected.
But what does that have to do with racism? People falsely accuse political candidates of things constantly.
> Actually most don’t.
Which is why there aren't enough socialist-leaning immigrants from Norway to affect election outcomes.
Which is why they ultimately get their passports after the government has conducted their investigation. For the people who weren't actually born here the government should be able to find evidence of that, e.g. the mother is not a US citizen and her passport wasn't stamped into the US before the child was born.
That’s not how the US constitution works. Whether or not the parents were here legally, if the child was born on US soil, they are still a citizen.
So it is still not on them to prove their innocence. It’s on the government to prove that they were not born in US soil.
Which is why there aren't enough socialist-leaning immigrants from Norway to affect election outcomes.
You claimed that it had to do with politics and not race. But Trump was more than willing to welcome people who would vote against his party’s interest. Why would that be?
> That’s not how the US constitution works. Whether or not the parents were here legally, if the child was born on US soil, they are still a citizen.
> So it is still not on them to prove their innocence. It’s on the government to prove that they were not born in US soil.
That's what the government is doing by providing strong evidence that the mother wasn't in the country at the time. If the person contends that she actually was, they have the opportunity to present their own evidence of that.
> You claimed that it had to do with politics and not race. But Trump was more than willing to welcome people who would vote against his party’s interest. Why would that be?
Because they are not those people. The people who (as most of that country does) prefer socialist policies are already living in a place that has them, so they do not come and do not change election outcomes. The few people who do come are the ones less likely to support socialist policies.
That's what the government is doing by providing strong evidence that the mother wasn't in the country at the time. If the person contends that she actually was, they have the opportunity to present their own evidence of that.
That’s not how criminal law works. The defendant is never under any obligation to prove innocence. The prosecution always has to prove guilt. Having suspicion is not having proof.
Because they are not those people. The people who (as most of that country does) prefer socialist policies are already living in a place that has them, so they do not come and do not change election outcomes. The few people who do come are the ones less likely to support socialist policies.
So you attribute that level of conciseness that Trump never stated. He never said that we want the good non socialist minority of Norwegians.
> That’s not how criminal law works. The defendant is never under any obligation to prove innocence. The prosecution always has to prove guilt. Having suspicion is not having proof.
Applying for a passport isn't a criminal proceeding, for one thing, but regardless of that, not having a passport stamp is strong evidence that you weren't here. It's like proof that your car was parked in your driveway all night when you claim you were at work -- when all other methods of travel are illegal. It's theoretically possible that you got there some other way, but now it's on you to show that. It's not about "proving your innocence" but rather rebutting the government's strong evidence that you're not.
> So you attribute that level of conciseness that Trump never stated. He never said that we want the good non socialist minority of Norwegians.
That's a fair point, only then it goes the other way. Trump doesn't want more people from Mexico because he actually knows they don't vote for him (it's a thing the media regularly talks about). Does he contemplate how immigrants from Norway would vote at all, or is he just arbitrarily choosing a country known to have a middle class?
Applying for a passport isn't a criminal proceeding, for one thing, but regardless of that, not having a passport stamp is strong evidence that you weren't here.
According to the article:
In some cases, passport applicants with official U.S. birth certificates are being jailed in immigration detention centers and entered into deportation proceedings. In others, they are stuck in Mexico, their passports suddenly revoked when they tried to reenter the United States.
Being “jailed in immigration detention centers and entered into deportation procedures” sure sounds criminal to me.
It's like proof that your car was parked in your driveway all night when you claim you were at work -- when all other methods of travel are illegal. It's theoretically possible that you got there some other way, but now it's on you to show that. It's not about "proving your innocence" but rather rebutting the government's strong evidence that you're not.
Do you know how many Black people alive right now in the South also have parents that were born as late as the early 1900s without any official documentation besides thier names written in a Bible? Should that also make it harder for my parents to get passports? (btw, it doesn’t.)
Actually he is threatening to expel US citizens who are Mexican who he doesn’t believe have valid birth certificates. Not because he believes they are forged, but because the babies were delivered by midwives at the border....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-deny...
ICE also detained an American citizen that was speaking Spanish.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/05/2...
Not to mention that whole Obama’s is not a US citizen but he is a “secret Muslim” trying to spread Sharia law.
but he's also not offering citizenship to low-income people from neighboring socialist-leaning countries who would probably vote for Democrats.
If it were about socialism and not race, why is he so enamored by people from Norway?