There are a number of issues with front-loading washers. While they use less water, they are also worse at cleaning clothes and much worse at sanitizing them. There was a recent post here on HN where a biologist did several experiments in her own washer to show how poorly they sanitized things compared to her older one. They also tend to trap water in the bottom and it gets musty and moldy, which with my spouses allergies is a non-starter.
But I whole-heartedly agree with your other issues. Moving from the Midwest, I can't believe how poorly insulated things are in CA. Our first apartment in Santa Monica had windows that didn't even seal properly when closed. You could very easily stick a sheet of paper through the gap between the window and the frame when it was supposedly closed. Some people even have glass louvres instead of windows in their bathrooms here!
> Moving from the Midwest, I can't believe how poorly insulated things are in CA. Our first apartment in Santa Monica had windows that didn't even seal properly when closed.
... yeah. Because it's in Santa Monica. Without even bothering to ask details about your personal temperature preference or the size or construction date of the homes, I can 100% guarantee you you're using less energy on climate control in SoCal than in "the midwest".
Trying to fix energy consumption by improving construction and code regulation in the major city least in need of climate control, like, worldwide is just a silly waste of resources.
LA is wasteful in many ways. But a city that sits at a 60-70F average basically year-round is just not in need of attention here.
My apartment in Westwood last year had a heater but no AC, used the heater a grand total of zero times. Makes you wonder why they ever installed it in the first place...
a heater, but not a/c, is part of the building code in LA.
my apartment has a heater and no a/c, but has a flow-through design that naturally keeps it cool in the summer. my heater and my portable a/c unit each get used about 2 weeks a year. the weather is really that great here.
That's another reason why California's housing policy is so egregious. Ceteris paribus living in California is more environment-friendly than living in the Midwest, so it's a shame that local governments' policy severely limits new construction.
This sort of thing is why I sort of hate energy star everything. Take dishwashers, for example. You can regulate the energy and water usage all you want, but it long ago got to the point where dishwashers that meet regulations basically fail to clean the dishes. Which is fine, it just causes the consumer to wash the dishes by hand either instead of or in addition to using the dishwasher. So now the dishwasher uses less energy/water, but the whole process uses net more water and takes more time.
my experience with going from a late-90s model dishwasher to a relatively fancy brand new one last year is that it cleans better, but is slower and simply doesn't dry the dishes at all, and the standing water can leave residues on the dishes if I don't take them all out and towel dry them right away
Ok, as a data point: I have a (new) Bosch dishwasher here in CA. The "Auto" wash cycle takes 2h20 and I can hear the unit flush the water down the drain after initial rinse.
My Bosch dishwasher in Europe does the Auto cycle in less than 90 minutes on a single change of water.
I think it's about different consumer expectations: it the US it seems people don't care so much about energy/water consumption, so other things matter.
BTW, both dishwashers get things done, the dishes do come out clean.
Im doing my washing today. Run it once with detergent, then again without. The first cycle doesnt use enough water to rinse out the soap. I am running off a solar-powered well. I have a literally unlimited green water supply, but must still suffer a watersaving washing machine. Im tempted to crack it open and disable the relevant sensor.
I don't see what about front-loading washers would make them especially prone to standing water or mold. I would expect that vertical washers could just as easily have standing water. Worse, it's probably out of sight behind the drum where you can't clean it.
Because the door is below water level, it needs to be sealed. There is a rubber gasket submerged in water that molds. Top-loaders don't need a rubber gasket.
I've owned both, and the brand-new front loader I just got is definitely worse in several areas with regard to collecting water.
The door gasket is pretty bad (not sloped well enough for water to completely drain away from it), but it's also got a pull-out tray for detergent which also collects quite a bit of water each time.
I did have a top-loader that got a bit musty smelling, though that was largely my own fault- living alone as a bachelor at the time (infrequent use) and habitually starting a load late at night only to fall asleep before I took it out.
I'm not entirely sure what it is. But it's actually a common problem with front-loaders. If we're not extremely diligent in hand drying the washer and leaving the door open, our clothes will smell REALLY musty. It's really bad. The internet is full of anecdotes.
I've never had the same problem with top-loaders. My next machine will most definitely be a top-loader.
I can confirm having owned 2 front loads. We leave the washer door open all the time while idle - sometimes blowing a fan inside to force-dry it out. Otherwise, mold city. It doesn't matter which make/model you buy, they all exhibit the same problem.
You still [probably] need to hand-dry the gasket, but according to my research it's what manufacturers recommend when pushed. I order a box on eBay every 1-2 years, approximately.
Yeah, I have yet to see a side loading washing without the moldy ring on the side of the door. I'm unsure how this is in any way a net improvement, as whatever action people take to fix the mold problem is likely to more than make up for the energy saved processing the water.
20 seconds with a damp cloth every few months, which is all our washer requires to keep the door seal crud-free, doesn't seem likely to raise energy requirements much.
They make high-efficiency top loader washing machines that use the same amount of power of frontloaders. I have one, it's much slower(45 to 90 minute wash times) than traditional top loader but is almost completely silent.
I was told that the washing machine should run at max temp about once a month - specifically to sanitise the machine. Can be an empty load (but not required).
If you didn't try that before, give it a shot. Hopefully it'll help.
There are a number of issues with front-loading washers. While they use less water, they are also worse at cleaning clothes and much worse at sanitizing them. There was a recent post here on HN where a biologist did several experiments in her own washer to show how poorly they sanitized things compared to her older one. They also tend to trap water in the bottom and it gets musty and moldy, which with my spouses allergies is a non-starter.
But I whole-heartedly agree with your other issues. Moving from the Midwest, I can't believe how poorly insulated things are in CA. Our first apartment in Santa Monica had windows that didn't even seal properly when closed. You could very easily stick a sheet of paper through the gap between the window and the frame when it was supposedly closed. Some people even have glass louvres instead of windows in their bathrooms here!