L-theanine is a structural analog of L-glutamate and L-glutamine, amino acids that are common in neurotransmitters, so the effects of taking it will be highly variable by person just like any psychiatric drug - although the effects are far less pronounced so it's much safer (liver toxicity aside). Chances are, your diet already has plenty of those building blocks for your unique brain chemistry so you're at an equilibrium where adding more L-* just gets balanced out by the body or it could be that it's saturated so you have to try other levers (although that is much harder since metabolic pathways are nonlinear and incredibly complicated).
That's what I was looking for. I recall a burst of interest/hype (choose your word), several years ago, about L-theanine. One company/salesman (the very prominent-looking, TV type, although I think this may have been via one of those suspicious-looking PBS specials [1]), was promoting it in a topical cream. Apparently, it would pass from that into the bloodstream.
There was little if any discussion in that... "pitch" about dosage limits. 'It sooths you. Rub it on. Rub on some more...'
I wondered. And more recently, I finally started seeing reporting of downsides -- although I didn't see much. Liver toxicity.
Like so many other drugs/supplements (choose your word), a lot of harm to reputation and perhaps also people is done, when no work or discussion is included about effective and safe dosage.
Like the "self-taught" herbalist my acupuncture friend had a (non-romantic) "thing" for, years ago. "Intuitively" brewing up pots of herbal tea for people, in his home. Not wanting to disappoint her, nor offend him, I drank some. And felt like crap for two days. Thank goodness my liver made it through unscathed.
I don't want the FDA shutting down everything on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies (who've played their significant roles in side-lining a lot of effective but unprofitable -- for them -- treatment). But I would welcome more intelligent conversation about and thoughtful approach to these things.
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1. PBS == Public Broadcasting System, i.e. publicly funded television, in the U.S. That's been taking on more and more commercial tinges, in return for corporate sponsorships, as the public money has fallen short.
Thank you. No, I wasn't thinking of "herbal tea" in that sense. Not of L-theanine.
Rather, of people promoting [product] without having real knowledge of it, including appropriate application and dosage.
This would be more in the vein of traditional Chinese medicine. Only, "intuitively", without the normal training and basis in extensive empirical observation condensed into an effective curriculum, apprenticeship, or similar proven method of conveyance.
Glutamate doesn't have any psychoactive effects because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier (to a significant extent). You are correct that theanine and glutamate in theory should have a similar effect on receptors, but receptor activity is only half the story. Other factors like transport and metabolism are important too. For example amphetamine and phenethylamine are structurally very similar, but will have a vastly different effect on your body.
> L-theanine is a structural analog of L-glutamate and L-glutamine
Interesting. I've tried L-glutamine, also several times at common dosages, and it makes me feel strange, like calm on the one hand, while edgy on the other hand. It's difficult to explain, but my voice felt calmer and my ears felt more anxious. I first thought the product I bought was contaminated, so I tried two more brands, with the same effect.
One thing is for sure: L-glutamine has much more effect on me than L-theanine (which basically does nothing).
interesting. theanine makes me very frustrated when i take it. ive dialed down the dose a few times, but stil get irritated. your explanation if helpful.
And this reminds me of trying Zoloft and a couple of other things.
15 - 30 minutes into one starter dose, and I felt terribly worse.
No professional explanation. It was only years later, when I ran across reporting about serotonin poisoning, that I had a possible explanation. The symptoms certainly fit.
A friend has used Zoloft for years, to what she feels is positive effect. And in many ways, we are fairly similar -- certainly, our psychological profiles align substantially.
Nonetheless, what works for her, does not for me at all.
Serotonin syndrome is nasty, nasty, and more nasty.
I've experienced it once, after a particularly incompetent new pain management doctor made me try a cocktail of anti-depressants for pain relief. (their reasoning being that "it's all in your head"). I felt utterly awful, pulse racing, severe anxiety and horrible mixing of panic and terror.
It's imperative that people on multiple medications take Serotonin Syndrome very, very seriously. I'm very sorry you experienced it, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
(The pain management doctor was fired a couple of months later by the university hospital. Complaints from patients, nurses, pharmacists and insurers had been mounting.)
I occasionally have the same experience when taking melatonin. It's bizarre.
I'd say 10-20% of the time that I take it, I am unable to fall asleep and don't become tired. The longer I stay away, I feel incredibly restless and twitchy to the point of actual anger. I'll lie awake in bed until 5 or 6 AM (after taking melatonin at 11pm or midnight). It gets to the point where I feel like I need to do some kind of physical activity in order to relax. My eyes and chest often feel heavy but my legs are tense, restless and twitch.
Sure seems like Restless Leg Syndrome just from proof reading this. Based on my first look into RLS just now, there could be a link to low Vitamin B, which could be triggered from a Saturday of drinking and then expecting melatonin on Sunday to set me up for a productive Monday.
How much are you taking? Melatonin actually is better in small dosages, at least for sleep. I get the 5mg tablets and then nibble on them. I don't take it every night, but one of those tablets will last me like 4 or 5 nights. High dosages (like 2+mg) are supposed to have nootropic effects that don't make you tired. I know I've never fallen asleep with a 5mg dose.
Also, light really kills the effectiveness too. If you need to watch TV or be on your computer then turn all your other lights off and turn the brightness way down.
See if you can get it in liquid form. I have a bottle with a dropper; each drop contains 120 micrograms. (So 8.5 drops is 1mg.) I don't use it very often, but if I have to wake up unusually early I'll take 2-3 drops around 20 minutes before bed, and it definitely helps make me sleepy when I'd normally still be awake.
This happens to me if I take my melatonin gummies and then try to do something like laundry or dishes, instead of going right to bed after. It's a lot harder to get to sleep so I just take them right before I know I'm going to bed and that helps my sleep quality quite a bit.
I'm not sure that "frustrated" is quite it for me. But I much prefer coffee to tea. After enough sleep, I feel sharp and energetic after coffee. However, with too much coffee, or after poor sleep, I get nervous and unproductive.
But with tea, I just get nervous and irritable. Maybe weaker tea would be better. Or green tea, rather than fermented. Yes?
For what it's worth, I've been diagnosed bipolar, and take modafinil. So perhaps I respond atypically to caffeine vs L-theanine.
Yes, in large enough quantities over a long enough time period. The chances of "overdosing" on it are almost zero but the long term stress on your liver can contribute to liver disease. Your liver is basically the toxic chemical treatment plant for your body, taking care of all the things that are too small for the immune system. This includes storing excess amino acids and filtering out poison like alcohol. All that bad (and excess good) stuff, takes work to clear out and the more work your liver does, the higher the risks of cancer and other diseases because more work means more chemical activity, cellular regeneration, and so on.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you're taking tons of supplements every day by the handful or if you're a heavy drinker. However, do get physicals at least once a year with a liver panel that can track if your liver starts to degrade. Liver disease is generally a slowly developing chronic condition tied to lifestyle so you can usually right the ship if you're mindful of the risks.
