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Rational arguments are not derived from gonvaled; gonvaled is built around existing rational arguments - to the point of misappropriating them.



Maybe you could provide an example moral value which was introduced by religion, and not appropiated from the already existing society?


There are a few problems with your request.

One, it's stated vaguely. What would qualify? Which religion, and which society? You would likely claim that there was some society somewhere which already had such a standard, and that therefore religion had nothing to do with it. It's too easy for you to dismiss any example because your requirements are not well defined.

Second, how far back are you willing to go? Go far enough back in human existence and we can't trace the provenance of a certain moral value.

Third, it depends on your existing beliefs about religion, creation, etc. If you believe that humans were created by a creator being who endowed them with certain abilities and tendencies, then who's to say whether a certain tendency was a matter of religion or society? If one believes that the tendency first came innate from our creation, and later was made explicit in revelation, was that tendency from religion or society?

On the other hand, if you believe that life happened spontaneously and that humans gradually evolved from single-cell organisms, then you have already eliminated religion as a possible source of anything, because no religion would be true, in which case everything would fall under the category of "society." (Alternatively, anyone can claim, "A god spoke to me and you should do what I say," and that would qualify as religion. In which case, I could claim that a god spoke to me, and that you should therefore believe everything I say. And then "religion" ceases to be a meaningful category, leaving us once again with only "society.")

So, as you can see, your request is not so simple, and is really just fodder for useless Internet arguments. If you want to discuss it seriously, you will have to address these matters first.


Let me further specify my request: provide a documented example of any religion (existing or disappeared) that introduced a new moral value which was not present (and documented) in the society where said religion appeared (absorbed moral value), or in societies with which said society was in contact (imported moral value). No need to go back to prehistoric periods.

This is completely orthogonal to the belief question: that is, you could perfectly believe that Jesus is the son of God, and still you will observe that all moral values introduced by Christianity were already present in the existing society.

Note: actually, to be precise, discussion with believers will always reach a point where rational discussion completely breaks down, since, by definition, humans can not understand the ways of God. At some point I will struggle to understand a situation which says the "wall is black and the wall is white", and a believer will rightly point to me that understanding this is simply over my head, and that I just need to accept it as it is.




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