Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

India’s pop has been booming for more than 50 years, and we only got independence recently enough that institution building is measured in less than 100 years (to be fair many old colleges exist with older roots, but for the sake of comparison with the entire population, they are a drop in the bucket.)

Unfortunately time is not on our side, as it takes a long time to make institutions and good institutional habits.

To compound the problem- for most of 50 years there was huge bran drain. All those people who would become professors, or experts used their English advantage to move abroad and use their talents better.

Not to mention the years lost due to license raj.

I’d say things are slowly working out and improving. Whether it’s in time to help the demographics, I don’t know.




Sorry - beg to differ. 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions.

Having lived in multiple countries, it is often clear to me that the reason for any country's woes almost always stems from their culture. Things may be different now, but historically Indian culture valued credentials and degrees a lot more than they did gaining knowledge. And many aspects of culture interfere with education. India is a country where relationships matter a lot more than, say, in the US. Part of that dynamic is the pressure to do favors for each other. This can be a huge problem when trying to objectively measure performance. I know a teacher in a 3rd world country who was given a hard time by society for not going easy on a student who happened to be a child of a relative. Stuff like that.

Culture is hard to change. Another example from another comment here: The fact that many students go to school, expect to learn little, and then spend hours with a tutor after school. I've spoken to parents from similar countries who:

1. Viewed the fact that their kids had tutors as a status symbol (clear barrier to change!)

2. Seriously could not comprehend the notion that teachers are supposed to teach well enough that going to a tutoring academy would not be required. I kid you not - quite a few refused to believe I was a top student and did not have a private tutor, and that my school had top teachers. For them, that's simply not how the world works.

With the right culture, you can build great institutions in a lot less than 70 years. But examples like the above are examples of a culture getting in the way of institution building, and you end up clashing with the culture at every step.


As I pointed out, most of India’s exemplary humans left.

The people who got the material, as opposed to just memorizing it, and could explain it in their native language - they’re not here.

While culturally there are issues, these are not responsible for the whole of the problem.

Also do note - Japan, China, and other nations also have this pattern for education.

At our population scale, the American system ceases to be useful since the classroom size is far too large. The problems am imdividual child has multiplied by the class of 40 students means that no teacher has the ability to customize fully.


I agree with your point that 70 years is plenty of time to form good institutions (e.g. China, South Korea etc.). But I disagree that culture is the culprit.

Firstly, Indian culture is incredibly diverse. If you live in Gujarat, you are respected a lot more for having your own business (whether its a Multi National Company or a corner shop) rather than an employee, even if you have a great job. If you live in Kerala, I imagine you are respected well if you go abroad and send remittances back. This is just a couple of difference on how different the cultures can be.

Credential ism is a very recent phenomena in Indian society, in place mostly because of the police-state like rule imposed on Indian society by the British. When all other methods of livelihood are elliminated (mostly, the textiles industry, but also local armaments and artists) and the only good jobs available are those in Government, of course the society will re-orient itself to satisfy those requirements.

There are many other, very good reasons for why Indian Institutions aren't as strong today as they should be. The Origin of Political Order is an excellent book if you're more interested in these things.


I agree Indian culture is very diverse - much more so than here in the US, for example. But let's look at some of the examples:

>If you live in Gujarat, you are respected a lot more for having your own business (whether its a Multi National Company or a corner shop) rather than an employee, even if you have a great job.

So most kids in Gujarat are not pressured to complete high school?

>If you live in Kerala, I imagine you are respected well if you go abroad and send remittances back.

To be honest, in my very limited experience, Indians living abroad are responsible for trying to improve quite a few institutions in India (in particular trying to build more educational/social institutions that benefit society in a way that existing ones fail). I honestly don't know if they are from Kerala though.

>Credential ism is a very recent phenomena in Indian society, in place mostly because of the police-state like rule imposed on Indian society by the British.

While I accept blame on the British, things that happened over 70 years ago is not "recent". The failure of not moving away from credentialism does not lie with the British.

>of course the society will re-orient itself to satisfy those requirements.

Incidentally, much of the credentialism existed in Britain as well in those years. Their implementing it in India was merely a way to mirror their own structures. However, the UK today is significantly less focused on these things, yet the sentiment is still strong in India. Yes, of course society re-orients itself to satisfy requirements, but the burden is on the society to re-orient itself once those requirements are no longer there.

BTW, my aim is not to minimize the impact of colonialism. I'm trying to point out that blaming colonialism will never be part of the solution to a country's woes.


You can blame colonialism, it’s not an issue.

Blaming doesn’t fix the problem, which we can agree on.

My point is that expectations of what can be achieved will have to be adjusted. India needs a huge investment of talent and money, and people would rather spend that talent and money to earn US$. The rational choice for individuals is clear.

On top of it class size, difficulty in testing at scale, job scarcity, language issues, discrimination, lack of teachers - make it an intractable problem.


> My point is that expectations of what can be achieved will have to be adjusted. India needs a huge investment of talent and money, and people would rather spend that talent and money to earn US$. The rational choice for individuals is clear.

Well, that depends on the individual. It may be a rational economic choice, but many of my friends do long for their home country and the social networks back there. Or just to not stand out from the general populace. So they will still go back.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: