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By that logic, I can't say "this brick is material" either, because we don't know what "material" is.

But really that's just arguing over words and definitions. We know what we mean when we say material (certain properties and behaviors), and as far as I know, we have just as much reason to think that a brick is material as that a mind if material. We don't need to understand literally everything to be able to make predictions about how things behave.




This is where relativity comes in.

What's good or bad? You can't compare anything too distant or you loose sight of the differentiation.

That stone is mater just like my brain but one was assembled molecularly a long time ago and the other evolved and was likely billions of molecules from around the planet at the time the stone formed.

I have info in my brain that's really only useful to me from a distance but truely only useful to my cortex, but my boss likes what I do with it for him. He says I do a good job but his competitors think it's all bad and some of my employees also attribute my success as a bad thing. But is that thing they consider bad me or something relative to them and not apples to apples to what my boss considers good?


I can show you a brick. Can you show me a mind?


Well that depends. What do you mean when you say a mind?

Explain to me what exactly it means to show you a mind, and I'll tell you whether I can show you one. If you can't explain what you mean by "show you a mind", then I'm not sure how this question is different than "can you show me a gefadfij" - questions are only meaningful if we agree on what we're talking about.

Note: by default to your question of "can you show me a mind", I plan to show you a brain, plus lots of reasons to think this constitutes a mind (e.g., changing something in the brain changes how someone behaves, touching parts of the brain with electricity can reliably cause sensations to people, etc).


Excellent question.

>If you can't explain what you mean by "show you a mind", then I'm not sure how this question is different than "can you show me a gefadfij"

This is basically my point, the mind is an undefinable concept.

Many people arbitrarily assume the mind is constrained to the brain, which is provably false.

For example, gut bacteria have a powerful influence on the mind.

Do you think it would be possible to completely separate the brain from the rest of the body and it's environment and still keep the persons conscious mind "alive" and in the same state?


Will you be showing a compressed piece of clay and straws or some kind of rectangular piece of concrete ?


Could you point to the difference?


That's like asking, can you show me an immaterial soul? Yes, there are arguments to be made in favour of the existence of such things, but given all we've learnt about things like biology, computation and the brain, we can hardly just assume that such things literally exist, and there's many reasons to think they don't.


>That's like asking, can you show me an immaterial soul?

Precisely my point. Saying "the mind is material" is like saying "the soul is ether"


Your mind wouldn't ask a brick to show it a mind would it? It identifies something similar and depending how important it serves it's purpose it'll keep evaulating how much can be learned by this.

Keep in mind we're only letting "intelligent" people contribute to this conversation and that in itself is biased. Why aren't we trying to identify why schizophrenic or people with split personalities chime in on why they perceive things differently and manage to survive.

We say they're unsuccessful in life but by our standards and that's not much different than a servant of a faith, no?

That's all your minds looking for. Things that change with a pattern it can differentiate. Bricks don't change unless something you understand changes it. Like inertas definition or Murphy's law, an obersavation of change from a perspective.


You show me a collection of matter and energy, it is no more separate from the world around it than the salt is separate from the ocean. It takes a mind to make it a brick.


Can you show me a computer program?



This is irrelevant. You don't have to show brick every time. We say sugar is sweet. No body experience how sweet is defined by other. Still we all believe it is sweet.


That's a bit different. The definition of sweet is basically defined as "the experience you get when eating sugar". It doesn't matter for this purpose if that experience is completely different for you - all that matters is that we both know that "sweet" is basically a synonym for "your experience of sugar".

Note that this definition allows you to predict a lot of things:

1. You can predict that you'll have the same experience when eating other things which are not sugar, but which you know cause the same experience in you.

2. You can predict, at least in broad outlines, whether people will find this experience pleasurable or not (again, on average, broad outline, but still better than chance).

3. You can predict that someone without a sense of taste won't experience anything when eating sugar.

That's why this definition is meaningful. Of course I can play word games all day about "can you show me 'sweet'???". But those are word games that are trying to hide the idea of what a definition is and what we use it for.


Can you show me the inside of a brick?


Can you show me a Higgs Boson?


Can you show me a cat gif?




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