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On a related topic, Bandcamp does something right. Until I first heard of it, I had very rarely bought music (I was born in the early 90s), and very often just downloaded it. Which meant manually (or automating) tagging of tracks.

But Bandcamp feels fair, I pay the artist/band the amount they wish or I wish to, and in return I get flac files I own with correct id3tags.

(Maybe it's just that Bandcamp was made when I started getting revenue, two unrelated events that just happen to coincide.)



I do a massive amount of work with indie bands in Melbourne and Bandcamp/Physical Records/Merch is the only way a lot of them make money (other than the rare big show). Most tours lose money.


This is strange, I remember some (ok, many) years ago a truism was predatory contracts stripped musicans of income from their albums but tours made the money. Maybe even then it was merc? I dunno.


Ticket sales are substantially profitable for solo artists and DJs, marginal for small acoustic combos and revenue-neutral for most rock bands.

One man and a guitar have much lower overheads than a four-piece band with a trailerload of equipment - you can't take a drum kit as cabin baggage. The band have to sell four times as many tickets to make the same revenue per person.

Even if a band can draw a bigger crowd and sell more tickets, the economics are still stacked against them. Small venues generally provide a house PA system and lighting rig, but larger venues don't. Equipment hire or a touring road crew take a huge bite out of ticket sales. Bigger venues also offer less favourable terms to artists, because they're far more likely to have a local monopoly.

I think this is a hugely overlooked factor in the decline of rock music. Young musicians are smart enough to realise that drummers and bass players need to be paid, but drum machines and looper pedals don't.


Yup especially with big concerts in Australia like soundwave/big day out. I once booked a show and none of the 4 bands I booked wanted to bring a drum kit. Okay, I'll hire one I thought (mind you I don't have a car...)

I sold $330 worth of tickets (small sunday night show), paid the soundperson $160 ($40 an hour), $50 for poster design and printing and then $100 to hire a set of drums... works out that each band ends up with $5???


Depends on the size of the band. That might be true for the big bands playing to thousands. Also — touring around Australia is expensive.


And it's prohibitively expensive if they decide to try playing outside of Australia. Just ask Ne Obliviscaris, who can only do it because they started a Patreon and their fans pitch in extra.


Tours makes money by selling merch.


Which is why my closet is absolutely packed full of (metal) band t-shirts.

I want to support the artists, so i usually get one if I liked the show, but sometimes I wish they would get more creative with merch options. I know there's an upfront cost and focusing on t-shirts is a pretty safe option. But I just love it when they get creative with patches, stickers, hip flasks, rings, belt buckles, skulls, necklaces, booty shorts, all kinds of stuff.

It may be a little bit odd, since I usually don't like obvious branding and advertising, but doing something different will absolutely make me consider buying more merch.


Why don't you just give the band the money directly instead of buying something?


I sometimes do, if they have a Patreon or GoFundMe or something.

But it feels sort of condescending to just hand them money at a show.


Yup a lot of them don't like it but anyone worth your time is happy for you to buy em a beer!


That's a better idea!

Though I think a lot of places around here have a beer allowance for performers. I'll give it a go, though :-)


Yeah they do here too but its never enough!


I use Apple Music, mainly because I'm tied into the Apple ecosystem. But I assumed at least some money got to the bands. Is it really insignificant?


With apple mucic 100% of the money goes to the label. The label then has a contract with the artist for how much online sales get sent their way. This contract may be very complicated so it isn’t necessarily “I pay $1, artist gets $.20”. Artists and labels will have different agreements with each streaming service for how many plays equal one “download”, from ~10 to ~1000.


It's the same problem on all the streaming services. The deals are done with the labels, so even if the payment for each playback is reasonable, the label takes a huge cut.


Bandcamp is incredible. There are tracks, albums on Bandcamp which are not on YouTube, which, let's face it, is quite rare.

And yes, the fact I can support beautiful music makes me happy. I want to support these artists so they make of more of these beautiful tracks.


Although I like Bandcamp, it's in a sense an even bigger rip-off than traditional labels. They get hefty shares for merely offering you a pre-designed web page and hosting. The vast majority of artists on Bandcamp make no money.

The problem is like with all alternative distribution channels - if you actually want to sell your music, marketing is more important than the music itself and very few people have the ability and time to do the creative work and the marketing at the same time. If nobody knows about your music, nobody will buy it. It's the same with self-publishing platforms for books.

Traditional publishers have all the marketing channels already set up, so marketing is easier and more affordable to them than for startups, let alone individual artists.


Excuse me for being direct, but do you work for a record label?

Bandcamp takes 15%/10% (depending on your yearly sales). Combined with the payment processing fees, that gives a return of around 80%, as mentioned in another reply to your post. I think that's perfectly fair, considering the hosting costs for thousands and thousands of hours of music, and their entire platform.

What Bandcamp offers is a sales channel that is already configured, all you have to to is give it a theme, upload your music in a lossless format, name the songs and choose a price. Bandcamp handles the layouts, the tagging, the multiple formats, the embedded album art and the whole shopping experience. You do the art, they do the technical stuff.

You're spinning a yarn that the traditional labels are necessary in order to do marketing, but with the rise of social media and the huge trust people have in word of mouth, the big in-your-face advertising campaigns of yesteryear are simply outdated. The only reason the big labels still have some kind of clout is that they own all the big radio stations. But the rise of streaming and internet radio has eroded that power.

And even if what you say was true, it only holds up for mainstream pop artists, not the much more interesting indie artists out there.


Excuse me for being direct, but do you work for a record label?

Not at all, I'm an independent artist at Bandcamp. What I am saying is that without marketing you have 0 sales.

I'm also not saying that there are no artists who can do the marketing themselves (through social media, etc., as you mention). Most artists, however, neither have the time nor the connections to do that.

It's the same effect as with app stores, where also just a very small number of developers make any money. You're right that Bandcamp offers a sales channel,of course. That's essentially all that these alternative distribution channels offer. We can debate whether that's worth 15% of the sales, though. As I've said, it works for some people who are well-connected and have a natural talent for self-marketing. For most of the artists, it doesn't work.


It has always been just a small segment of artists who could actually make money directly from their art. Most artists in history had a patron of some kind, either a rich person or royalty, or the church (or other religious institution).

The sales pitch from the big labels is that they will use their connections to get you noticed, but the prerequisite is that you should already be reasonably established before they want to pick you up, or ridiculously lucky that you just caught the right person's attention at the right time.

The best way to get your name out there is still to play tons of smaller shows, build a local fanbase, and get on festival lineups, either through competitions or because your fanbase pesters the promoters into booking you.


> hefty shares

15%, or 10% if you're really successful. That means 85% of the money goes to the artist. This is better than e.g. Steam and the app stores, and far better than the old physical-media based sales.


Payment processing fees are not included, so it's more like 80%.


That is still significantly better than any record label contract those bands could hope for.


I think most (in the 95% sense) artists don't live of their art. Most of them have "real job".

I think Bandcamp is fair in that it enables all those people to make their production available and get something, however small, for it; and enables other people to find art which would otherwise not be accessible. All in all I think it's a cultural plus for the world.


There are also some bigger artists (within their genres) that use Bandcamp. Several prominent metal labels are also represented.

It's just a really convenient way to make your music purchasable for download.


The day I discovered that labels like nuclearblast are putting albums up was a bad day for my bank account.


NB does their own thing with downloadable FLAC albums, on their own website, right?


Argh, I meant Napalm Records, sorry. Now I have to go and see what nuclearblast is doing :)


If I remember right, Bandcamp keeps 15% of all purchase. That felt like a lot when my old band were trying to sell our music on this platform!


It's significantly less than a record label would take. Think of it as a payment you make, instead of a cut taken from your earnings.

If you don't sell anything, you don't pay anything.


Same here. Bandcamp is the best, but I’m afraid they’ll be ruined by big money at some point.


This is already happening. I bought an album(Requiem for my friend by Zbigniew Preisner) from bandcamp couple years ago. Now i wanted to buy a new album but the artist is not publishing lossless music on bandcamp anymore. It's all the big streaming providers.


Yuck...


With my band, we have experienced though that there is (should say was, 2015) not enough visibility, so we opted for big streamers which ripped the money off us, but allowed us to be heard more widely.


If I may ask naively, why not both?


Not a naive question, at the time the distribution system required us to give them the rights for online distribution




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