He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them.
What separates them is that they're almost never wrong. Not when they pull out "this is garbage" card.
This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important.
I really hate that aspect of our industry. But that's just hating on humanity. Apes listen to apes that shout, but only when everyone else is listening too. Otherwise you're just a dick with no influence.
The key is to hate that Linus is a bully while also respecting him when he's right.
It's super frustrating because I feel like any of us could have written that, and no one would care. Literally no one would listen. But Linus says it, so it bubbles to the top of HN and now we're counting our blessings for how lucky we are.
Try to remember this next time someone says something that sounds crazy. Your instinct should be to suppress your skepticism and think whether it has merit. It might piss you off, but is it true? That's the important bit.
And not just for design, but for everything.
(I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.)
I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. So, yes, it seems to be evident that those people are scared of other people who are able to speak their mind freely. People who are doing important jobs like maintaining critical code are cowards who break under the slightest hint of critical pressure (no, not all are cowards, but that's the trending issue right now). And then I read something like this above "I hate it when he's right and gets away with his bullying". The IT-industry is doomed. When criticism is being judged by how it's carried and who is criticizing rather than what is criticized and how important that is. If everything is going to shit some day then it's because someone was too scared to speak their mind.
> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis
I don’t know how you can believe this after reading even a few of his messages. Read the message which started this thread and count the number of times where he is talking about not just the quality of work but the person who produced it.
It’s possible to be blunt and unforgiving about code without saying that the person who created it is a moron.
Well, jeez. If I messed up badly and my boss, colleague, wife calls me a moron about this particular mess it doesn't mean they think I'm a moron generally, they just call it as it is, and I'm responsible for it. I don't take it personally just because they call me a 'moron', especially if I deserve it!
That means that if you get offended by the way someone else criticizes the mess you're responsible for you are not accepting the responsibility at all! Well, now that's an interesting insight!
The behavior you’re describing may be satisfying for the person slinging insults but is widely recognized as unhelpful by most management or educational guidelines because it doesn’t lead to any positive outcomes but does lower morale and increase stress.
Most people are going to take it personally, especially when it’s public in front of their peers, and since it’s so lazy and unhelpful there’s no benefit from doing that rather than, well, anything constructive
I agree with that. But, even though it's all true what you are saying, within the context of the argument about Meltdown they definitely need to be able to suck up the blame for it. Being called a moron doesn't make this mess less bad.
Arguments on the internet are held public most of the time + it's all public record. Personal insults are generally not acceptable. But when is it personal and who decides what's personal and what not? Where is the point when insults are the least important part of the issue? Should the insulted person always take insults personal regardless what issue at hand?
I understand that sometimes an argument about an issue in reality is a battle of egos. But, seriously, Intel trying to wiggle themselves out of the noose with it's not a bug it's a feature PR stunts, I think insults are as appropriate as "thank you" and "have a nice day". So, if anyone says or does something stupid for no apparent reason, questioning the sanity of their decision making by calling them a moron is the way to go, imo.
If that is true then Linus is a wrong bully. I haven't seen him continuously targeting other people personally to make them look weak. He criticizes other people's bad decision making or bad judgement, not their persona! There is a clear difference here!
But I get the point that there's more to actual bullying than I initially stated, thanks for clarifying that.
>> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis
This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary.
Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.
I would say, er, this time, partially. On the patches pushed by David, apparently he confused an acronym, and the patch Linus ranted about being garbage may not be so garbage-y. At least, David pushed back on his messages with some of his reasoning, and a kind note to tone down the shouty (http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html). Linus's rants on the general Intel situation still seem to apply. :)
People get angry, it happens (a bit more with Linus than some, it's a personality flaw, but it's not like any of us are perfect). I guess the general thing is more that, for some reason, people are way too overly fascinated with Shouty Linus compared to Linus the general kernel developer. There's a lot of posts on the Linux Kernel list... but the odds of a single post from this list being shared on social media dramatically increases for every Linus swear word included.
"You're a moron, because of this and that issue" isn't as personal as "you're a moron, because you were born stupid, and your family is stupid too" See the distinction? It's up to the person to take it personal or not to.
Jobs was a bully who got the big picture right, but often got the details wrong; folklore.org has plenty of stories about people going round Jobs to get shit done.
Linus is abrasive, but he usually has a good explanation for why the target of his ire is a moron, e.g. everytime some coder without Linus’ experience suggests converting the kernel codebase to C++.
Let’s be honest, most developers are average at best, and knowledge is our status play. Scoring points against Linus’ decisions are one way to get you noticed, which makes him a target. If I had to deal with that shit everyday, I would do my best to discourage point scorers by putting them in their place as well.
This is the only way you can get Linus to really lose his shit. I'm surprised his comments in this Intel thing approach the level of anger he has for C++. It's my barometer for how important something is to him.
He lives under the sword. The moment he stops being right, everyone will swiftly turn against them.
What separates them is that they're almost never wrong. Not when they pull out "this is garbage" card.
This is a difficult ability to learn. You need to stay quiet most of the time, then be a complete asshole when it's important.
I really hate that aspect of our industry. But that's just hating on humanity. Apes listen to apes that shout, but only when everyone else is listening too. Otherwise you're just a dick with no influence.
The key is to hate that Linus is a bully while also respecting him when he's right.
It's super frustrating because I feel like any of us could have written that, and no one would care. Literally no one would listen. But Linus says it, so it bubbles to the top of HN and now we're counting our blessings for how lucky we are.
Try to remember this next time someone says something that sounds crazy. Your instinct should be to suppress your skepticism and think whether it has merit. It might piss you off, but is it true? That's the important bit.
And not just for design, but for everything.
(I'm sure whoever came up with the current design isn't too happy about Linus calling it garbage, but they'll just have to deal with it.)