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Java gave us an environment where it was easy to create complex applications quickly as well.

The web will fade away just like Java did.



I do like Java, but sometimes get a bit pissed off how things went, because we had "an environment where it was easy to create complex applications quickly as well" in the form of Smalltalk, VB, Delphi and C++ Builder.

With the exception of Smalltak, all had native code generation, then Java happened.


VB (i assume you mean classic VB, not VB.NET) wasn't really an environment to create complex applications though - at least not in VB itself. The best use for VB would be to use to mix together components made in other languages (often C and C++). If anything people who tried to use VB as the implementation language for complex stuff regretted it later.

I agree about Delphi and C++ Builder though, but Borland seemed hellbent on chasing enterprise unicorns - and pricing their products according to those dreams - so the software and the ecosystem suffered because of it.

I'm not sure about Smalltalk since i haven't used it much to know, although the first time i came in contact with was with a demo of IBM's VisualAge Smalltalk that was given on a magazine coverdisk and i ran away screaming (ie. deleted it immediately) when it took ages for the environment to load and do anything on the 4MB 386 i had and even then after following the simplistic tutorial it created an "executable" (that actually needed some other stuff to run) that was like 10MB (which for my 130MB HDD was a gigantic waste of space). Of course that was probably the entire image, but i didn't knew it at the time - and it wouldn't change much really, i needed the space for games and other stuff :-P.

I remember liking being able to drag arrows between elements in the GUI to hook events and properties together. I haven't seen that bit in the little i played with Pharo some time ago, i wonder if it was VA-specific. I tried to run the demo when i got a better PC, but for some reason it wouldn't work in Windows 95 and it has been years since i lost the disk. I wonder if it is available somewhere online but all searches point me to IBM's pages that have nothing.


Starting with version 5, VB allowed the creation of COM components natively, and could generate pure native code, not like the previous versions that just embedded the p-code inside a binary with a VM.

I have seen several enterprise level applications, with distributed objects (DCOM) and transactions, written purely in VB.

Including my first sight of an "Electron" app, exposing several COM libraries, written in VB, into a MSHTML container, using those objects from JScript in the page!

Regarding Borland, when Java came into picture, the company was still doing alright, and their Java development environment was designed similarly to the Delphi and C++ ones.

Their problems and change of focus came afterwards, when they lost a few people to Microsoft, including Anders, whose first project was to design Microsoft's Java implementation, J++.


VB5 indeed allows that (i have a VB5 box i got off ebay some time ago :-) and i've spent a lot of time with that and with CCE before that), but the language isn't really that friendly towards complex applications. But FWIW i think that VB lost its way around version 4 or 5 anyway :-P.

About Borland and Java, i actually have JBuilder 2 (again off ebay - i collect old development software :-P) and yes it does look nice and sort of friendly (although it is far from Delphi's level of ease of use). I think the entire thing is built on Java too. Sadly it doesn't seem to work in modern Windows - even the applications it creates throw exceptions.


Java had the advantage that it not only worked everywhere, it had just so incredibly much built in. The Java standard libraries alone provide more functionality than in many other languages all third party libraries for a feature can do combined. Building cross-platform apps in Java is actually easy, even easier than in Delphi or VB.

Nowadays, in Node, we don’t even have timezone handling properly built in, or UI frameworks. Or anything.


Sure, one of the reasons I liked it, was because of the chaos that still was writing portable C or C++ code back then.

But when focusing on the PC market, it felt a step backwards being interpreted, the JIT only came in 1.3 and AOT compilation has only been available in commercial JDKs (gjc was never that good).

Let alone the whole story with value types.

Thankfully, I have been able to avoid Node thus far.


The web is 10 times more entrenched than Java. I think you're underestimating it, badly.

Java was pushed just by Sun/Oracle. The web has at least 20 big parties that are promoting it: Google, Mozilla, Amazon, Facebook, Wikipedia, etc.


Java...hasn't faded away, though. It's slightly less popular than it once was, granted, but it's still insanely popular.




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