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>That is why people are willing to pay a due and give up some freedoms in order to use them as leverage in compensation negotiations.

I am not ant-union but unless they live/work? in a "right to work" state I don't think they gave a choice but to pay dues or quit.



State "right to work" laws are irrelevant here. Airlines are subject to the Railway Labor Act. Generally states have very little power to regulate airlines.


Thanks for letting me know the airline labor regulations are covered by the Railway Labor Act and not the regular labor laws in the individual states that is interesting to know. So I guess I should have said that no matter which state they live in they don't have a choice but to pay their dues or quit/be fired since the Union contracts say that the airlines must fire anyone who does not pay union dues.


But where does the union come from?


> But where does the union come from?

Of all union members in the country, only 7% actually have ever cast a vote in favor of the union that represents them.

The vast majority never have the opportunity to vote one way or the other, because once a union is formed, it is legally granted authority in perpetuity. They only lose that right if a majority for decertification or deauthorization, but for a number of legal reasons, it's almost impossible for those elections to even be held, even in cases when the majority of workers oppose union representation.

So, to answer your question, "But where does the union come from?" - most likely, from the people who happened to work there years ago, when 50% (plus one) voted in favor of it. It may or may not actually represent the wishes of the current workforce, were an election to be held today.


Of all employees in the country, certainly less than 7% actually have ever cast a vote in favor of the company that employs them.


> Of all employees in the country, certainly less than 7% actually have ever cast a vote in favor of the company that employs them.

100% of people who accepted a job accepted the job...


The majority of the employee pool in America is in a deeply economically precarious position. A month or two, or even a few hundred dollars make the difference between being able to house and feed their family or not. Employment in America is a gun to the head. The idea that choice is a factor in accepting (or doing anything to retain) a job is the delusion of a privileged few.


> Whenever I raise the point that it is immoral to shut us up in a close room twelve hours a day in the most monotonous and tedious of employment, I am told that we have come to the mills voluntarily and we can leave when we will. Voluntary! Let us look a little at this remarkable form of human freedom. Do we from mere choice leave our fathers' dwellings, the firesides where all of our friends, where too our earliest and fondest recollections cluster, for the factory and the Corporations boarding house? By what charm do these great companies immure human creatures in the bloom of youth and first glow of life within their mills, away from their homes and kindred? A slave too goes voluntarily to his task, but his will is in some manner quickened by the whip of the overseer.

> The whip which brings us to Lowell is NECESSITY. We must have money; a father's debts are to be paid, an aged mother to be supported, a brother's ambition to be aided, and so the factories are supplied. Is this to act from free will? When a man is starving he is compelled to pay his neighbor, who happens to have bread, the most exorbitant price for it, and his neighbor may appease his conscience, if conscience he chance to have, by the reflection that it is altogether a voluntary bargain. Is any one such a fool as to suppose that out of six thousand factory girls of Lowell, sixty would be there if they could help it? Everybody knows that it is necessity alone, in some form or other, that takes us to Lowell and keeps us there. Is this freedom? To my mind it is slavery quite as really as any in Turkey or Carolina. It matters little as to the fact of slavery, whether the slave be compelled to his task by the whip of the overseer or the wages of the Lowell Corporation. In either case it is not free will, leading the laborer to work, but an outward necessity that puts free will out of the question.

-- Sarah Bagley, 1845


'Are there no prisons?'

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are they still in operation?'


And 100% of people who accepted jobs in union shops accepted jobs in union shops. If accepting the job counts as a "vote" "for" the company, why doesn't accepting a unionized job count as a vote for the union?


In a few cases I've had to ask for changes to the contract. I have never and will never sign a non-compete. I'll sign NDAs, and IP agreements and relinquish patent rights, but never will I sign something that dictates what I can or cannot do once no longer employed.

Once I walked away from a contract where they refused to remove the 1-year non-compete.

Another time I worked for a for a startup which had started out as an open source/volunteer project. After a big disagreement about the contract with the lawyer, the principal investor told me to 'sign the contract I wanted.' I refused to write my own contract and insisted the lawyer stop being insane and send me a contract without the non-compete section. She never did, but I started getting paid.

It worked out. The startup failed, I gutted the two commits that weren't mine and back-ported all the changes to the OSS version, keeping it all GPLv3.

TL;DR I accepted a job without accepting a job contract.


I take your point to be that you negotiated on your own behalf, which is great.

I think it's fair to say that very few people have the savvy to know that offer terms are negotiable, and further that very few people are employed in high-demand careers where they can negotiate their employment terms 1:1.

The companies have information asymmetry on their side, since these negotiations are performed sequentially and in private. Mathematically, the Nash Equilibrium looks very different for n sequential negotiations of "who will sign this non-compete?" vs a single all-or-nothing negotiation where the company ends up with <n|zero> employees.


But the members vote for the elected positions of the union and on the motions at conference :-)




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