The web is now filled with spam, porn and propaganda...
The problem here is that Facebook seems to be choosing sides.
It worth noting that this might be propaganda to begin with and many of those so called "activists" posts could likely be violating TOS at the least if not actual laws.
What is going on in Burma is terrible but there has been a lot of violence from all factions the Buddhists didn't woke up one day and decided to commit genocide.
Like many current conflicts these aren't black and white and the only truth is that people are dying.
>What is going on in Burma is terrible but there has been a lot of violence from all factions the Buddhists didn't woke up one day and decided to commit genocide.
Like many current conflicts these aren't black and white and the only truth is that people are dying.
This is a pretty ridiculous reading of events in Myanmar. Rakhine buddhists with the help of the military and police have been persecuting Rohingya since as far back as the end of WWII (the Rakhine and Rohingya fought on opposite sides). More recently since the junta took control in 1962 the Rohingya have been denied citizenship and harassed constantly by the junta. The Rohingya in the past 20 years have begun to push back and formed armed defense groups branded by the government as terrorists. Things came to a head in 2012 (after the 2011 transition to "democracy" began) when the government incited sectarian riots in Rakhine state. The government blamed the Rohingya and began driving them out of their villages in recent years to "fight terrorism". Some Rakhine buddhists have
used this as an opportunity to burn those villages and attack fleeing Rohingya.
Yes there are armed Rohingya groups, but they were trapped between an encroaching military and until this year a border with Bangladesh they couldn't cross. The government and Rakhine are absolutely, unquestionably committing genocide. Basically everyone in the world other than the Burmese government and you agrees with this designation.
I live in Myanmar. A regular HN reader and a non-believer. I have never written comments, but there is so much misinformation going on regarding the current crisis. The recent major terror by Islamist group (ARSA) attacks on thirty police outposts left a dozen police dead and a government office and a Buddhist monastery burnt. That was not the first time that happened but the biggest and deadliest we know of in the recent memory. All ethnic groups had to flee, including Rakhine Buddhists, Hindu, Myo, Thet, and Dinet. Very few knew. The international media seems to have slept through that episode and woke up when some Rohingya villages start fleeing once the army arrived to track down the villages where terrorists were sheltered. How many terrorists do you think are needed to attack 30 police outposts at the same time? One instance a Rakhine village was surrounded by hundreds of angry Islamists. Another instance, it is a Hindu village that was brutally attacked.
My parents used to live in the conflict zone. I have been to the region several times. Tensions can be traced back over decades, but there was sectarian violence between Rohingya and Rakhine. Many of the times, the conflict started with initiating attacks by Islamist terrorists in the community. There were major attacks in 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. The affairs are far from one-sided bullying. That genocide claim is a stretch by a thousand miles. Two of my relatives, Buddhist Rakhines, who used to live there until a month ago, had to run and fled home due to the increasing threats of militant Islamist groups, and they do not ever want to go back the area. The other side of the story was never been heard in the media.
One blatant lie is that of majority Buddhist persecuting the minority Muslims. I wonder if those journalists writing about the issue ever step a foot on the region. There is too much propaganda going on out there. I cannot believe what is going on. What you have to understand is that a conflict is happening in a remote and very isolated land even from other areas in Rakhine State, Myanmar. The sole mode of transportation is by river boats. The population of Rohingya Muslims outnumbers the combined population of Rakhine Buddhists, Hindu, and other ethnic groups by the ratio of six to one. Rakhine Buddhists were the majority in the region half a decade ago. Muslim population tripled since the 1980s. Islamist terror attacks have been more and more frequent.
I am not here to downplay the plight of Rohingya, but framing the complex issue into a simplistic version to drive an agenda and demonizing the other side is evil. I am in the camp of giving citizenship to people who have legitimately lived there for generations. Leader Aung San Su Kyi has been working along with UN to draft guideline for citizenship and resolve this issue. Everyone is suffering. The rise of know-nothing activists, ivory tower commenters, and increasing radicalization in the region have made life very difficult for everyone in the region. The bottom line is that it is not one-sided bullying and people who have been to the region and studied the issue are very much aware of it.
I have never been more disappointed in the integrity of the news media. If you want to learn nuanced and balanced analysis from an outsider who had actually been there and studied the issue, I recommend this article by Jasmine Chia, a Harvard student who did research in Rakhine State.
http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/the-truth-about-myanmars-rohi...
>wonder if those journalists writing about the issue ever step a foot on the region.
How about your country starts by letting in international observers to witness exactly what is happening? From all accounts they are being prevented by the Myanmar government from doing so. When you prevent this, you look as if you have something to cover up after all.
Let me start by saying that I've had a keen interest in Myanmar for years. I've opposed sanctions and supported open dialogue and normalization of relations. I don't mean to impugn average people of any ethnic, religious, or social group in the country. My criticism is focused on the government and a narrow complicit minority of people in Rakhine State. I also don't mean to downplay the role that ARSA has played in fanning flames in sectarian conflict.
> but there is so much misinformation going on regarding the current crisis.
If it's misinformation, let international observers in to see what's happening. Moreover, are the Rohingya women and children fleeing into Bangladesh with bullet entrance wounds in the backs of their arms and legs misinformation? They got shot by someone, and they say it was the army. Shooting fleeing women and children is very indicative of something like a genocide.
>What you have to understand is that a conflict is happening in a remote and very isolated land even from other areas in Rakhine State, Myanmar
Yes, we've seen maps. Not everyone in the West is totally ignorant of geography.
>One blatant lie is that of majority Buddhist persecuting the minority Muslims.
I didn't say that, and neither does the UN or any news outlet I read. I'd argue that the government is persecuting the Rohingya and some local Rakhine Buddhists appear from numerous reports to be complicit. Self identified Rakhine found at the sites of burning Rohingya villages has been confirmed by the BBC.
>The population of Rohingya Muslims outnumbers the combined population of Rakhine Buddhists, Hindu, and other ethnic groups by the ratio of six to one. Rakhine Buddhists were the majority in the region half a decade ago. Muslim population tripled since the 1980s. Islamist terror attacks have been more and more frequent.
I'm not sure A is necessary and sufficient to prove or lead to B in your argument. As seen elsewhere in the world Muslim population doesn't even correlate with terrorist attack frequency.
> Aung San Su Kyi has been working along with UN to draft guideline for citizenship
Which appears to be bullshit, because it requires documents that displaced Rohingya were long denied, and wouldn't have access to in the event that they fled across the border.
To quote the article you linked: "It is clear that anti-Muslim propaganda has become part of regular nationalist discourse", which is sort of the crux of my criticism. The government leverages anti-muslim propaganda to legitimize the persecution of the Muslim population.
*EDIT: Also, that you for adding your perspective to the discussion. It is rare in the rest of the world to hear perspectives from ordinary people in your country. I hope I haven't come across as too harsh, or combative. I do fundamentally agree that it is a messy complicated situation that is too often painted as a simplistic narrative.
Thank you for your point-to-point rebuttals. That is what I like about HN.
I did not mean to personally accuse you of lying when I wrote the sentence. I meant to point out what many major media (BBC, Guardian, CNN) are insinuating. I apologize that I came across that way.
>One blatant lie is that of majority Buddhist persecuting the minority Muslims.
Also, I am not implying that population of Muslim correlates with the frequency of terror generally everywhere in the world. All I am pointing out is what is happening in troubled Maung Daw region. I am not in the camp that attacks Islam as a whole and formulates a general theory. The issue is more complicated than a simplistic correlation.
I disagree with your following statement.
>The government leverages anti-Muslim propaganda to legitimize the persecution of the Muslim population.
There are many Muslims in the other regions of Myanmar. Even in Rakhine state, there is another minority Muslim group, Ka-Mann, in the middle of the state. Ka-Man Muslims were recognized as an ethnic group by the government, and there was no alleged religious persecution of Ka-Man. If you visit Yangon, the biggest city in the country, you will see that there are several Mosques in downtown, and there are a lot of Muslim communities that are peacefully coexisting with Buddhists, Christians, and Hindu for a very long time. Unlike what media is portraying, the extremist monks, like U Wiyathu who was on the cover of Time magazine as Burmese Bin Laden, are unpopular in the country. This Rohingya issue is being mischaracterized by the media. Those in agenda-driven media who are framing this as one are fanning the flames. There are unverified accusations dumped on Rakhine Buddhists and the army who we do not support. We all are hoping unbiased international investigators to dig the truth out.
I agree 100% with you in letting international journalists and observers in and let them investigate and report without hindrance. That is what many people, including me, have been asking for years. There are several journalists from BBC, NYTimes, and some major news organization in the region. I do though want to point out one thing that many people in the region and the country as a whole are very distrustful of international media. There is resentment among Native Rakhine, and they feel that they have been framed and unfairly demonized for a particular agenda or narrative by these major news organizations. I am one of those people very much bothered by the narratives and very selective coverage of BBC and Guardian. I am all for welcoming international journalists and observers from all political spectrum and ideologies. People can have biases, but they need to be open about it.
I am ignorant of many things in the world. I just happen to know a bit about this particular issue since my grandparents, Rakhine Buddhists, lived their entire lives in the troubled region, and I happened to hear a lot of brutal heartbreaking stories from the other side ignored in the media. It is just a very odd moment in life when you became very cynical about everything in the media. I do not want to live my life that way.
I am aware of my background and bias. All I want to do is to point out that there are a lot more to the story than a very simplistic version painted in the media, just as you mentioned.
Thank you for your engagement. I appreciate your input.
> the Buddhists didn't woke up one day and decided to commit genocide
Germans didn't wake up one day in the 1930s and decide to exterminate the Jews either. That doesn't mean the Jews were at all to blame for their persecution.
>> The problem here is that Facebook seems to be choosing sides.
There is ALWAYS choosing sides. When FB decides to block pornography, they are choosing a side. When FB decides to mark some posts as spam, they are choosing a side.
Could they have a platform with ZERO choosing of sides? Technically, yes!
But, do you know what that would look like? My guess is more and more spam posts.
Moderate the 'spam' per-user rather than globally. The main problem that I and most other users have with the anti-free-speech practices is bad categorization. Give users the tools to moderate their own experience (with defaults, so long as they can be disabled, and heck, disable the ability to change them in more repressive countries) and you basically have the problem solved.
I don't want these companies making the "disappear this" judgment calls anymore. They've shown that making those calls dispassionately and objectively isn't all that important to them.
The problem here is that Facebook seems to be choosing sides.
It worth noting that this might be propaganda to begin with and many of those so called "activists" posts could likely be violating TOS at the least if not actual laws.
What is going on in Burma is terrible but there has been a lot of violence from all factions the Buddhists didn't woke up one day and decided to commit genocide.
Like many current conflicts these aren't black and white and the only truth is that people are dying.