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Ask HN: What to do with this meme?
53 points by dchest on July 14, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 67 comments
Hello,

I made this little web app - iwl.me, which is just a box with a button. You give it some text, it analyzes it and tells you what famous writer you write like (I won't go into algorithmic discussion for now), and gives you a badge for blog and a link for sharing on Twitter/Facebook/Buzz. It's up for 3 days now, here are stats:

   2nd day - 12,000 uniques
   3rd day - 100,000 uniques
It's spreading just like a perfect meme should :-) E.g. http://search.twitter.com/search?q=iwl.me

My question is, what should I do with it:

a) for monetary gain (It already achieved the SEO effect I planned, not sure what to do now).

b) for a good cause. I'm already thrilled to notice that people discover and re-discover writers and say "Oh, I write like [writer], I must read more of his works." What can I do to get more of this effect?

What do you think? I'm open to ideas or deals. Thank you!

PS Technical details: it's running on a single Rackspace Cloud instance with 512 MB RAM, Apache+web.py.




How about then giving the user a list of works by that author via amazon? If the users really do want to read more of that writer's stuff, this might be a good way to get some affiliate business. You could possibly even point to specific works that they "write like". You might also take a look at the goodreads api (http://www.goodreads.com/api) for some possible social networking aspects? Maybe you could show people reading things they write like via goodreads or something along those lines.


I thought about Amazon affiliate program, but I'm outside the US, and it's a huge hassle to deal with checks here.

Thanks for suggestions!


I presume you mean cheques of money sent you from Amazon?

If it's too much hassle to cash potentially huge affiliate checks then you're rich enough, give the site to someone else that wants more money.

Seriously FB has 400Million active uniques. If you capture one-hundreth of a percent of those and then of those 1% convert and you make $1 on each conversion that's $400.

Even if it took me a whole day to organise cashing the cheque that would be worth it.

For Amazon though the problem is that they fragment their affiliate scheme (to create less opportunity for small sites to break the cash-out threshold presumably) so AdWords or whatever might be better.


I'm in a new country (Montenegro), haven't got residence permit here yet, don't have a permanent address, and don't speak the local language to figure out how to cash checks.

Anyway, I've added Amazon affiliate links now, maybe I'll cash out with gift certificates.


Can anybody confirm it's possible to join Amazon Associates outside "Amazon" countries? (US/UK/FR/DE/JP/CA)

Spent 5 minutes on Googling but didn't find the information.


Yes, it's possible. Just sign up here http://affiliate-program.amazon.com/join/getstarted


Perhaps you have a friend or family member in the US that would take the money and pay you ...


How about trying to sell ads directly to booksellers? Even if affiliate programs won't work, you could offer users up the same kind of book list as sort of a customized banner ad. Being able to serve up that many impressions must be worth something, even if only for a short time. Even sites that don't directly sell books, but are related (back to goodreads, because its the only one I have really used) would probably be interested in this. Hope you get something off the ground.


Check skimlinks, they can pay you via PayPal, too.


PayPal is also not an option here :/ But I have a workaround for this, so I will check it out.


I second this just because the first thing I did was go search for books by that author on Amazon.


1. Quickly send an email to the Top 20 writing sites out there. And make them an offer: they could get a white label version of your script to be on their URL with their logo for a fee. Strike while the iron is hot.

2. On the results page, quickly create a form that asks for peoples email id. And then publish a newsletter that helps folks become better writers. Capturing email ids also give you a big base of folks with whom you can share your future apps with. Faster seeding.


2. Done. Thanks!


I'll share some experience with your from cornify.com, which had the same effect and still goes strong 1.5 years later (this year invitation to ROFLCON, SXSW people's choice award, installed in 550000 web pages...). This is my experience with a project that's different from yours, so I hope it will help with your specific situation.

The main thing you need to achieve is to make your site about a bigger theme. This feature will remain the core, but you need to be associated with something bigger. With Cornify, it's always been about happiness. Unicorns and rainbows are (almost) second to that, which gives me much more room to work with. Make your site about famous writers, becoming a better writer, or something like that. Use imagery that matches the theme.

The second big thing is to make your tool deep, while keeping it simple. People know it for this one thing and the one thing only. Make it so you can find something new every time you use it, make it smart so it learns with the number of times you use it. Surprise people. Tweak, tweak, tweak.

Third recommendation is to build a voice and talk to people. Get Twitter and Facebook accounts. Decide on how you want to relate to people and what they should get out of being interested in you. I've gotten so many "Oh, I can't believe Cornify is on Twitter" comments, it shows that you care about the site. A brand would also be a big help. Maybe you can look into using imagery of famous writers.

Find a way that people can create things on your site. With Cornify, people really like the photo uploader. Find something that people can create on your site and then share. This keeps people coming back.

Most importantly, keep things fun. This is not serious business, this is a meme. If things stop being fun or get cluttered with ads, people will not take your serious and won't come back. Be very careful about monetizing. A meme that people like is an incredibly thing to have in your resume and a great talking point. I worked on projects for MTV, Nintendo, EA, etc, but people get way more excited when they find out I created Cornify. This is a meme and you may be more proud of other things you have done, but in terms of public recognition, you should take this very serious.

And congratulations. It's very exciting to see a project blow up like this. Hope you have a great time with it.


Thanks for sharing your experience!


Just wanted to emphasize one more time that you need to act right now. Stop sleeping if you need to. The next few days are super important.


Many of my FB friends are writers, this thing has spread like wildfire through them today. But the thing is it's a flash in the pan effect. It'll do huge for a very short period of time with no revisits. If you monetize, do it RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow is too late. Almost literally.


>FB friends are writers

It may be a good idea to turn this into a Facebook app. That way you have a user base to experiment with later, as well as, some further advertisement.


I agree, just like almost every meme, it's short-lived.


A lot of the memes on the web are short-lived, however there's nothing about memes that makes them inherently short-lived. Some memes live extremely long.


I'd be interested to see examples of long-lived memes like this.



Those at least give you neverending variety. There are novel thousands of new variations on the lolcat theme every day, and no end to the slot-machine-like fun of rating people hot or not in the hope of eventually getting to one who is either particularly hot or hilariously not.

But once you've posted in a sample of your own writing, gone "Hahaha, I write like Mario Puzo, hey guys, guess what?", I find it hard to imagine anyone coming back time after time.


That is true. There's a lack of stickiness to the original poster's app as it is. It might be interesting to see how other people's writing was rated.

The newsletter addition was a good idea. I have a feeling many "writers" would be upset to learn they wrote like Dan Brown, no matter how many novels he's sold. Possibly a "From Brown to Updike: How to Improve Your Writing" course.

The OP's idea is darn viral, however. I love the success he's had.


Clickable: http://iwl.me


I know you said you're not discussing the algorithm, but to me, the biggest proof of silliness (I won't say "nonsense") is that when I entered 7 different blog posts of mine, I got 6 different results.


I tried two different posts I wrote (in fact, the entire contents of my rebooted blog, since RSI has kept me down lately), as well as one half-written post, and apparently they all appeared to be Dan Brown works.

I'm not quite sure what to think of that, but at least it was reasonably consistent for me.


It was completely inconsistent for me. I tried 4 posts and got 4 different results. I tried 2 different parts of the same post and got different results.

I suspect the webapp is just suggesting random writers.

Also, NLP classification is a hard problem. I don't think doing it reliably over a weekend is possible. I think that had OP done any good work on NLP, he would have discussed it. I am more inclined to think the app is just giving random results.


It's not completely random. I've just tried sticking sections of works by authors mentioned in this thread in to see if it can identify them, and it's not doing badly.

I gave it a slice of Finnegan's Wake, and it told me it sounded like James Joyce. It would be a pretty bad algorithm if it couldn't identify James Joyce.

Then I got it to correctly identify passages from Dan Brown and Mario Puzo. Quite impressive.

One possibility is that it's just matching word frequencies. To check this, I tried a few strings of my own devising:

"mafia mafia don don mafia mafia" --> Mario Puzo

"vatican conspiracy vatican conspiracy vatican conspiracy" --> Dan Brown

"oh woe is me, life sucks, everything is crap" --> Chuck Palahniuk


I suspect the webapp is just suggesting random writers.

Nope. It's just a Bayesian classificator :)


You realize that there is a niche of academia that works on using computers for analysis of writing samples in order to determine probable authorship, right? Algorithms exist that have been tweaked and improved over the years that you might be interested in reading about.

You might also connect with the people who try to identify students who turn in term papers and lab reports written by other people.

You could also add a game (who wrote the following paragraph? (Multiple choice)). That would be an avenue for return visitors.

You could also have "write like Hemingway / Dickens / Neal Stephenson / etc." contests. Kinda like painters going to famous museums and copying the works of famous painters, it's a way to extend and hone the craft of writing. I recall a good version of Twas The Night Before Christmas written as if Hemingway wrote it. Also, connect with specific writers' fanbases (especially Chuck Palahniuk), and with writers workshops, and fanfic groups. Poetry, too.

There are a lot of ways you could take this. Make sure your algorithm is effective, though!


Yes, I even have been contacted by people who research this, and received a lot of pointers to interesting works. But I'm sure I wouldn't be able to integrate and figure out this in 3 days.

You suggestions are helpful. Now that I'm interested in this topic, I may release something better. Thanks.


Have you thought about using the tournament algorithm to improve accuracy?


Not yet, but thanks for the pointer.


Fun exercise: paste in excerpts from famous authors. I gave it Faulkner and it said he writes like Joyce. Hemingway writes like Shakespeare who writes like Dickens. Lovecraft writes like Poe who writes like Nabokov. (It correctly identified Joyce, Dickens, and Nabokov.)


My results were actually consistent. I pasted in parts of an unfinished novel four paragraphs at a time and I got Dan Brown each time.


Does that make you happy or sad?


Great, you write like 6 different authors! :-)


upsell a relevant product

affiliate deals for the authors books

enjoy the seo :)


I fetched a document I wrote and entered several paragraphs, and got a different author each time. What does that say about me (or your algorithm)?

Congratulations on the traction though!


I tried a couple of times, got Raymond Chandler, Margaret Atwood, Stephen King and... Dan Brown. All for different elements of the same page. In turns inpsiring and soul-crushing..


Obviously this would be something that would mean a lot more work, but how about.. Tracking a users's blog feed, parsing each post and see how their writing style evolves over time?

This would certainly increase the longevity of your app.


This is a great idea. I'll do this when I have time, thanks.


on that note checkout 750words.com. Basically you write 750 words a day and it analyses the text to tell you about what you have written - whether it's extroverted, self-centred, positive etc. These stats are then displayed with nice graphs.


There is no info about the 'famous writer'. At least an Amazon affiliate link to the author should generate some income. Also, the first paragraph from Wikipedia would be useful.


Based on your post, you write like Dan Brown.



Apparently I do too...


Depending on which paragraph within the same blog post I checked I write like Margret Atwood, Mark Twain or Isaac Asimov. By removing the last sentence from my Asimov-like paragraph: H.P. Lovecraft. Removing another sentence I write like Edgar Allan Poe.

I'm not sure what this tells me about my writing, but it does stroke my ego. Sometimes that's just what a writer needs.


You might consider pinging somebody at Lulu (print-on-demand self-publishing company). They might be interested in partnering with you in some fashion... since they specialize in helping authors get published, there might be some synergy there; even if it were no more than a Lulu advertisement on your site. Other self-publishing outfits (CreateSpace, SmashWords, etc.) might have a similar interest.

Disclaimer: I'm a former Lulu employee and still like those guys a lot, which is why they came to mind first. :-)

Also, if you're interested and need any help making a contact there, feel free to email me. I still have a few connections left over there, I think.


First, congratulations.

I think your first goal now should be encouraging users to return later.

I would definitely promise right on the results page that more writers would be added regularly and algorithms would be improved so that people had reasons to bookmark you or to subscribe to your twitter/facebook waiting for their favourite authors.

I would also make local pages for all writers you have. Link to Amazon in that place is unexpected.

You could also encourage showing off by enhancing badges. That could be percentages (e.g. I write like 7% of users) or cool portraits or even something like "I write like Stephen King - I could have written The Stand".


Impressive uniques progression... what did you do on day 1? I mean, what strategy did you employ to launch the meme? I guess you launched it on codingrobots blog/newsletter/twitter, did you do anything else?

Regarding the spreading, a tweet from some real author will be great (how?). And what about publishing some real-time stats about the results? i.e. 30% of our users write like Dan Brown, 10% like xxx, etc...

EDIT: "Margaret Atwood, who is in our database of famous writers, tweeted about it (apparently, she doesn’t write like herself… oops :)" Already happened... enjoy the exponential growth in visits :)


Yes, newsletter, Twitter and blog. First "outside" referrals were from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/cnmny/what_famou...) and my HN comment on "What are you working on today?" (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1501078). Total of 132 visits on the first day.

Currently:

  facebook.com 20.75%
  tumblr.com   8.24%
  twitter.com  5.57%

Of the popular writers, Margaret Atwood tweeted about it (apparently, she doesn't write like herself -- she is in the database :) http://twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/18463485898 and William Gibson http://twitter.com/GreatDismal/status/18450533599

I don't track any stats regarding results of analysis, I can only see which result pages get more visits.


How about recommendations like "people who write like Bukowski enjoys Burgess"? Of course the author names are links to your affiliate program.

BTW, the banner at the bottom of your site is taking ages to load.


BTW, the banner at the bottom of your site is taking ages to load.

Hmm, it's hosted on Rackspace Files CDN.


Bit off topic, but it will be interesting to learn how you seeded the meme. Will be good for people like me who churn out such minor projects which always fail to get >100 visitors :)

As far as monetary gain is concerned, immediately you can find some of the writers books on Amazon and link them up in the results page with your affiliate id. Long term you can capture email ids and send them offers on email.


It would be interesting to see a comparison graph of other users. For example, I would be interested to see how many other people write like Vladimir Nabokov, and maybe even what the top 10 writers are.

Congratulations on your success!

P.S. You said you're in Montenegro but don't speak the language -- just remember "pivo" (beer) and "poshto?" (how much) and you'll be fine ;)


It says I write like James Joyce. You sure know how to pump up my ego! There must be money in that.


Makes the two of us. Want our money, you can have it.


Depending on how well it's done, I could imagine 'niche' writing analysis doing alright. What 18th-century philosopher do you write like? What CS textbook writer do you write like? Which Doctor Who do you write like? Etc.


Dude, you have no facebook Like, Tweet this, Buzz it, links?

.... oh wait.... they do exist...

Umm ok... How about you use the regular icons for familiarity sake?

I also like the "bio" idea. Seeing a name I don't recognize makes the experience a bit hollow.


Oh you should totally join forces with this guy - http://www.finishstart.com/ - it will be a whacko mashup.


I just pasted some irc logs. IRC writes like Mark Twain...


Amazon affiliate links for books by said authors?


pg ~ kurt vonnegut


I write like Joyce apparently and Defoe


Lovecraft here.




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