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GAGA-1 (jgc.org)
58 points by jgrahamc on July 11, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 20 comments



So many interesting details even in the first post…

• Some GPS modules are crippled to not work very high and very fast so they can't be used on ballistic missiles.

• "Rise time" is an issue with balloons. You want to hurry up to your burst altitude to stay warm and not drift too far. I suppose aerodynamic shapes are out since it has to be able to expand hugely as it rises.

… ah, details.


> Some GPS modules are crippled to not work very high and very fast so they can't be used on ballistic missiles.

You can do one or the other. Mach 1.5+ below 60,000 feet. Above 60,000 feet below Mach 1.5.

Not really sure how much protection that provides given that most commercial flights are below those speed and altitude thresholds.


Yes, the rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoCom) dictate that the GPS should cut out if the device exceeds a speed of 1000kts AND an altitude 60,000 feet.

A lot of GPS units wrongly interpret these limits as being 1000kts OR 60,000 ft, and so aren't suitable for high-altitude ballooning.

Of course, it's a silly restriction because if you've got enough money to build a ballistic missile, you've probably got enough to build your own GPS receiver (CU Spaceflight have built a software GPS receiver themselves).


I'm glad that you enjoyed that. I was using the blog post in part to document what I had found. Hopefully, others will found the information useful.

I went to a balloon launch yesterday in Cambridge and the guys there were great. Very helpful and explained many little things that I don't have time to blog about.

http://blog.jgc.org/2010/07/ballasthalo-5-launch-afternoon-o...


...and here I was hoping that Lady Gaga was headed for space. Disappointed.


Awesome. Here are a couple questions.

Is it possible to send a balloon up and not have it burst. Just float around for a few days?

How do you calculate the balloon size And helium needed for a given payload?


Yes, it is. That's what the CU Spaceflight people are doing with BallastHalo and there have been autonomous cross-Atlantic flights I believe.

The balloon manufacturers give lift information and then you simply fill the balloon and measure the lift.


So how do you keep it from bursting? Or would reading about ballasthalo explain that?

I wonder what the actual formula is to calculate the correct balloon size? It seems like it might be some complicated differential equation. Here's why:

Say I want to lift 10 lbs. So I figure out I need X volume of helium. So I need a balloon weighing 1 lb to hold the helium. Now I need a balloon big enough to lift 11 lbs instead of 10, repeat, repeat.


> might be some complicated differential equation

If by “complicated differential equation” you mean either “surface area is approximately proportional to radius squared so this could be solved by 8th graders” or “just add 20% margin and it’ll probably work perfectly well”.


You want to use a 20% margin for spaceflight/stratosphere access? I'd rather find the right equation.


We’re talking about a balloon that we want to have rise to the stratosphere in 2-3 hours. If the balloon rises at 4 meters/second, or 7, instead of 5, it’s really not the end of the world. Just pick a size, calculate (rather trivially) how fast it’s going to rise, and then change the amount up or down.

If it really must be exactly 5 meters/second (or whatever), the computation is still at about the level of a slightly-above-average 8th grader.


A 20% margin would reduce space-access costs immensely.

We use exotic alloys, explosive fuels and precision machining because we need to reduce weight to the structural limits. If we hadn't, space access would be cheaper and safer.

Sadly, Earth has just enough gravity to ruin our day.



BTW, I had an idea for cheap access to orbit using a helium balloon, solar panels, and electrodynamic tether propulsion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_propulsion)

But alas my math skills aren't up to the task of figuring out if it's viable. Someday I'll figure it out and you guys will see a blog post on it.


I have no experience with this stuff, but: instead of a plastic case, could you carve out 2 blocks of polystyrene foam to exactly contain the equipment, with more temperature-sensitive stuff nearer the middle? It's a good thermal insulator and extremely light.

Or will polystyrene burst/disintegrate at such low pressures?

In any case, this sounds like a fantastic project, best of luck!


But we need to conserve helium!


There's some talk in the high-altitude ballooning community about using hydrogen - it's much cheaper - but as yet I don't know of anyone doing it.


There a plenty of people who use hydrogen in the gas balloons, even in places where helium is cheaper

Here's some info: http://www.balloonfiesta.com/gas-balloons/gas-ballooning-faq...

but there is more to be found.



interesting timing... I'm getting together with some friends today to discuss doing one of these.




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