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Parent didn't suggest otherwise. Maybe it's better, i.e. the right thing to do, to leave a market in an oppressive land?

Personally I think more of Google for doing that.




Google went back to China. They have offices and employees.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/google-is-going-on-a-hiring-...


Those offices were never shutdown...well the one in wudaokou wasn't. They did leave the search market, and most of their services are blocked by the gfw, but google never "left china" completely.


To my knowledge, there are no Google services in China.

Are search, gmail, Play Store, etc working?


I can get my mail from imap.googlemail.com without a VPN, but everything else I tried is blocked.


Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press.

I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.


The use of what aboutism and moral highground logical fallacies look extremely crass, especially on HN.


Yes, we prefer do as I say, not as I do here. /s


No. Whataboutism fallacies were pioneered by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but when used by someone in the west, they just come off as looking extremely insecure and desperate for a workable argument.

So it is a cultural difference. While whataboutisms and moral high ground fallacies are acceptable in the east, in the west they just signal insecurity and desperation.


No. The term whataboutism was used as a way to disregard an argument, without addressing it's point.

It is usable only from the position of arrogance. It has no place in a honest discussion.


This was a clear what aboutism that had no argument attached to it. It was the very definition of a what aboutism, not ambiguous in the slightest. The writer even starts out with the proverbial glass house! And then states something about the USA pulling out of the climate accord, which is relevant to censorship? Even as whataboutisms go, this one is not even on topic.

They could have replaced that whole paragraph by "what aboutism america!" And no information would have been lost.

Seriously, what aboutisms have no place in serious discussions.


Nobody thinks the USA is perfect. But there is no comparison with China. Having a lot of violent crime and putting many people behind bars is nothing like mass executing prisoners to take their organs for profit. Openly arresting dissident jounalists is nothing like whatever imaginary 'threats' you're talking about. No country of size, diversity and importance has ever been or will ever be a moral utopia. Let's keep some perspective as we try to optimize within this reality.


What would you have us do, then? What would you have Apple, or the United States as a whole, to bring China's policies more in line with your preferences? You seem to have some opinions on this subject, after all. Perhaps you'd like to share them.


I don't think anyone from any country can honestly say their products are free, open and willing to push back against governments anymore (anyone with a correction though I would be more than happy to see, so that I can support that company.)

Edit:(quick -i wanted to follow up after hitting post)

We shouldn't ever make arguments such as 'well x is worse' because that just detracts from the issue.

The problem is a company voluntarily giving up a particular service(or disallowing in this case), due to local laws that we (I'm sure as a majority on hn) disagree with. This is the issue, not that any particular goverent or president/prime minister or whatever is wrong or an idiot.




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