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Wouldn't you expect communist nations would be the most creative using this logic? There really isn't a good way to measure creativity but I'm curious if that is true.



Well, that would presume that Communism frees you from having to worry about starving or keeping a roof over your head, when historical evidence would suggest that it actually makes those things worse, and adds a healthy dollop of "having to worry about whether the thing I create will get me sent to the gulag" which doesn't exactly do wonders for creative freedom.


At this point, places like Scandinavia should have made it clear that socialism per se isn't the problem so much as cult-of-personality authoritarians who use the ideals of socialism as cover for bottomless corruption and ruthless oppression.


Do we have a historical model of communism? Communist Dictatorship feels too far removed from the ideal to work.

In UK history some monasteries probably get close to being communist communities, but they're very small scale.


I don't buy the idea that the ideal just hasn't been tried. It has been tried. To the extent that it always instantly degenerates into the same failures when tried at scale, that's not because it hasn't been done right... it's because it doesn't work. They always turn into dictatorships almost instantly because that turns out to be the only way to keep the proletariat from discussing the fact that this Communism thing isn't working out as promised and we should probably throw the bums who made the promises out. Turning into a police state, and based on the evidence, killing a few thousand to a few million of the most talkative[1] to intimidate the rest becomes instantly the only way for the animals-who-are-more-equal to stay more equal. Even the propaganda moves used to justify this to the populace are tediously predictable ("those failures you're trying to talk about don't exist but to the extent they do they're the fault of people trying to keep their ill-gotten gains away from the revolution." Have you ever really thought about why "re-education camps" are called that?).

I am not aware of a successful "communism" that scales above the Dunbar number, and while I can point at ones that are arguably successful at sizes below that number there are even more that have failed even below that number.

[1]: People who post to the internet about how wonderful Communism are generally posting about how wonderful it would be to have a government who would target them for death pretty early on, as they are the "talkative ones" who would be watched. Same, incidentally, for the people who actively riot in favor of giving the government lots more powers to, oh, say, take "care" of people passionate enough to riot in favor of overthrowing the government, which is really appealing right up to the point that you are the government.


>to intimidate the rest becomes instantly the only way for the animals-who-are-more-equal to stay more equal //

If they're "staying more equal" then surely that shows you didn't have a communist state.

IMO the transition is nearly impossible because you need those in power to want benevolence and humanitarianism more than power​ and wealth.

>I can point at ones that are arguably successful at sizes below that number //

Please do?


to work, state would have to make very good short-mid term prediction to determine production. If we had true AI, I think communism would be manageable on a bigger scale.

Of course, once we have true AI, human history is also over.



Besides the fact that communism didn't remove the worries about basic necessities, it also didn't reduce the burden to work - communism is all about full employment, so you don't get the time to be creative.

Additionally, there were few incentives for people to be creative (you couldn't benefit from your creative work), and also many restrictions on creativity (art/culture was directed by the state, freedom of speech minimal).




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