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Where the Apple accounts that hackers are threatening to wipe came from (troyhunt.com)
113 points by MandieD on April 7, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 54 comments



Password reuse is still a huge problem. Even my friends who are somewhat savvy (not professionally in tech) don't know what a password manager is or use one.


The response I get from even savvy tech people is like I just told them they really should be flossing more.


It's like when a dentist tells you that it's ideal to brush three times a day after meals, plus once more in the evening.


Except you really shouldn't brush right after a meal: http://www.hamiltonsmiles.com/blog/2016/04/dont-brush-after-...


First, rinse with or drink clear water. Then chew some sugarless gum. Both of these practices will produce saliva, restore a healthy pH level in your mouth, and coat your teeth with nourishing minerals. Out of all the sugarless gums available, the best of the best are those that list xylitol as the first ingredient. Another option is to consume cheese, milk, or another non-acidic food or drink to conclude your meal.

After you have given your mouth time to return to a healthy pH, feel free to brush your teeth.

Well good, that's how I've been doing it.


Sure, but then an honest dentist told me that what's most important is flossing and brushing before bed.

So what's the analogous tl;dr for account management? Don't use passwords like "mysecretpassword", and don't reuse them?


Then we find out flossing isn't much benefit: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/02/dental-floss...


Well, when you're older, with iffy teeth, flossing removes trapped food that will cause inflammation and pain, the next day. That's personal experience.


Sadly I have to upvote this based on personal experience.

Was reading this thread right after the thread on John Goodenough. There are different things that happen as one gets older that one wishes didn't. Still, it beats the alternative.


"Use a password manager" is the tl;dr already.


Sure, but http://www.darknet.org.uk/2017/03/lastpass-chrome-extension-...

So maybe, "use a local password manager"?


Which is weird, because using a password manager makes things easier. It's not extra effort to be secure.


using a password manager makes things easier

Until you lose the database, then things become really difficult.


I can access my phone and email without the password manager. That's enough to recover the rest.


I find this to be really difficult to do with 1Password


Data loss sucks no matter what it is. That's why God gave us backups.


There have been lots of attempts to fix this problem. The latest one is the W3C Web Authentication draft spec.

I hope we get to the point where authentication doesn't rely on the human memory at all.


Several password managers have been hacked though...


The same author has an article on this subject as well: https://www.troyhunt.com/password-managers-dont-have-to-be-p...


He isn't giving me any hard data or proof that password managers are superior other than "they are because I say so." I'd like to see statistics. It seems intuitive but often things that seem intuitive are not so. I can see many ways a central repository of ALL my passwords could be more disastrous than someone hacking my login at one site.


We should not have had to use password managers if the sites asking for passwords had not been developed by doofuses but then again...


After I searched for my credentials on haveibeenpwned I have started to use the suggested password feature for my important sites. I should really move all of them to this instead of my memorized password.


Sure, I don't think this is arguing that password reuse is not a problem.


According to the article, Football95 is the top password.

Anyone happen to know why the reference to 95? I can't quite remember anything particularly special about that year to make it a common password for people.


I thought the same thing. In fact, many of the top 10 passwords look odd to me: dthomas? disneyI (capital "I")? conrad76?

I have a hard time believing these are legitimately the most common passwords. Compare that to a list like this:

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/the-most-commonly-hacke....


From that link - can someone explain this one to me?

20. 3rjs1la7qe

Seems like a word but not sure which language. Only interesting password in the list.


It's likely that these are mass-reused passwords from bots. See: https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/featured/so-just-...


It's not a word, it's a keyboard walk. Fairly clever one too.


How is that a keyboard walk?


Care to explain?


Perhaps Arabic? My Arabic is very poor, so I cannot make out what it's saying.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet


Yes, the top passwords being so specific is a key point in TFA.



IME, its not uncommon for people to include the two-digit form of their birth year in usernames or passwords.


Great analysis Troy! It's good to see real data to back up the most likely (and least worrisome) scenario.


The standard hacker stereotype is of kids in basements, which the author seems to propose here, but most hackers who commit crimes are in their 20s-30s. (I have no direct evidence of this except the majority of public arrest/sentencing of cyber criminals, and generally people in the blackhat and organized crime scenes are not teens) The bravado thing is less a factor of being young, and more that a ton of cyber criminals have comically inflated egos.


> (I have no direct evidence of this except the majority of public arrest/sentencing of cyber criminals, and generally people in the blackhat and organized crime scenes are not teens)

According to Wikipedia, the ages of the people arrested in connection with LulzSec were (sorted): 16 17 18 19 19 20 21 21 23 24 24 29. Plenty of teen representation there, and even low 20s is still pretty young. (Those ages are at the time of arrest, but most of the arrests were in 2011, the same year LulzSec was founded, so they would have been about the same age when they committed the crimes - albeit likely younger when they first got into the 'scene'.)

Similarly, Lizard Squad: 16 17 17 22. (Main activities were in 2014; ages adjusted based on the number of years between then and the news articles specifying the ages.)

Neither of those groups were terribly sophisticated (mainly performing DDoS attacks), but neither is the person(s) in the present case, who just culled passwords from old leaks and got the media to make a fuss.

Anyway, getting arrested ≠ committing crimes. To get arrested, you have to (a) go after a high-profile target and (b) successfully attack them (where DDoS counts as an attack). Lots of kids do things like DoSing personal rivals (and their Minecraft servers), which is definitely a crime but unlikely to result in an arrest. The younger, the more petty...


There's also an element here that should be studied in more detail: These are arrests, not participants. What if the older hackers are just better at not getting caught and it's the kids that make mistakes that get them busted?


Yes and no. LulzSec and Lizard Squad belong to a very specific subset of hackers: people who hack big targets simply because they enjoy it. People in this group tend to be relatively unskilled, and less emotionally mature, hence skew younger. And they also are a lot more likely to end up in the news, and in people's imaginations.

The majority of hackers in the modern day do what they do for financial gain. Among that group things are more even. But the skilled hackers, those that develop and use 0days, will skew older because it takes time and experience to reach that level.


Most hackers would also recognize that demanding ransom from Apple in exchange for not wiping accounts isn't likely to be very effective and may have some negative consequences (e.g. being caught and getting beaten half to death by their victims). I have no trouble believing that the culprits here are likely to be pretty young.


The threat of wiping accounts was silly in the first place. The hackers have user passwords, not access to Apple infrastructure. So they log in as the users, delete files from iCloud... and Apple restores files from yesterday's backup. They could cause a lot of hassle for the users and Apple customer support, but not wipe accounts.


Or they issue a "lost device - remote wipe" via find my iphone / find my mac. No restoring from that for mat: https://www.wired.com/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking...

It's a shame you can't have Find My Mac active without also allowing remote wipe. So I disabled Find My Mac for myself.


Did you just link to a 5 year old story?


Has the situation changed?


Most hackers don't commit crimes, because most of them aren't stupid. But some are. (I have known those stupid people, and they were in their 30s, did really stupid shit, and are now doing time)

I would posit that most people engaged in cyber crime are not hackers, from the botnet owners who literally paid for and downloaded a tool with instructions, to the people who install skimmers, to carding merchants, people running protection rackets, email scammers, etc. A small number of people actually "hack" into a system using any form of advanced skill in order to do things like extract accounts like those in the article.


> Most hackers don't commit crimes

What definition of hacker are you using here? I know we're on Hacker News, but in the cybersecurity context hacker refers to someone who hacks into a system, which would mean hackers commit crimes by definition.

EDIT: I pasted the wrong thing


No, in a cybersecurity context a hacker is merely someone who knows about or is involved in security hacking. This includes, for example, researchers and government employees. It also means people who self identify as a hacker, and again, they usually don't commit crimes. The vast majority of DefCon attendees, for example, don't commit crimes, and then there's all the corporate shills at BlackHat.


It took me some time to parse the title. Isn't the original - clickbaity - title better?


The only difference between the titles is "Here's", which doesn't make much difference to make it more parseable.

Took a while, but finally got it: "where the Apple accounts (hackers are threatening to wipe) came from"

Interestingly, now that I parsed it, I can't see why it took so long.

That said, "where the Apple accounts that hackers are threatening to wipe came from" would likely have been more obvious.


Yeah, it definitely needs the "that" added in, took me a couple of minutes to work out what the title meant


Error: Still can't parse.


I can't edit my entry, but the title is better now.


How come the twitter account of these assholes is still operational?

Twitter should not allow their platform to be used by self professed criminals.


Ask any cop how much easier his job is since YouTube came along.




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