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I was recently forced into being a power Google calendar user. A new job demanded me to use it, previously I added maybe 2 events / year. Now I have to schedule a whole class's daily activity.

My brief experience was a total disaster, it's one of Google's horrible products, I sadly have to live with. I rarely hit my desk with my fist but it has happened. I'd be really really happy if any alternative would exist, I don't even care about not being open source.




Could you elaborate why google calendar is horrible for you?


Every time I prepare a travel itinerary across multiple timezones via Google Calendar I'm reminded of my feeling that it was written as a front-end for a database of calendar items, not as a tool for busy people to organise their lives. It is basically impossible to input an arrangement of items that usefully and quickly illustrates where I need to be and when.

A simple example is that here I sit in Hong Kong, and my upcoming flight from San Francisco to Melbourne (which departs at 00:50 PDT) is showing as departing at 17:50 HKT, which is true but useless. That's the hallmark of a system designed with the data structures in mind first. With (too many) clicks I can change it to display in PST, but now my diary for today in Hong Kong is wrongly displayed.

To some extent this is a flaw in iCalendar's data model, but it's not insoluble, if you start with the right perspective i.e. user stories. So my general complaint is that this kind of "data first" rather than "utility first" design pervades the Google Calendar application.

(Don't even get me started on the "world clock" extension, it's just garbage).

Judging by the listing of optional extensions in the "Labs" section, Google Calendar has languished with little serious development since 2009. The main utility to me these days is that it can aggregate multiple calendars, including subscriptions to external feeds, and then pass on that aggregation to mobile clients.

So I think it's another dying Google product, one that was misconceived in the first place, and I too am interested in alternatives. However calendaring is hard and none of the alternatives I've considered to date were actually better; all limited or flawed in other showstopping ways. So Google Calendar remains the least crap of my options.


We (FastMail) have a solution to this. You can view the calendar in "floating time", in which we display every even in the event's own time zone. So you can see your Hong Kong events as they will be in Hong Kong, but your San Francisco flight will be shown at 00:50.


Hey I didn't know FM were having a go at calendaring. Can you make calendars as slick as you did webmail? I hope so! I tried it out, I think you're on the right track; I could even switch over today, despite some minor features missing (e.g. some views, split TZ start/end). I'll also say, don't be afraid to move beyond the standard paradigms to implement user stories. Calendaring has sucked for years, and reimplementing Google Calendar simply with fewer interface defects would leave a world of needs going begging.


I've used FastMail calendering for several years now, I've got to say I've never had a single issue with it, accepting links / invites from other people on gmail etc... all works perfectly and events sync and update not only quickly, but reliably. I've (been forced to) used O365 for work for years and that shows a stark contrast where events go missing, have incorrect timezones from people in not just the same timezone but same organisation, disconnection issues, many year old appointments popping up at random etc... I've never had any of that with FastMail's calendering - just the way it should be. However I know that this Ask HN is about open-source calendering and FM is a hosted solution. The biggest issue I've personally had with most of the available CalDAV web interfaces I've seen / tried is that they tend to be written in PHP and while I don't want to hate on languages and it's not that simple, PHP isn't something I want to add to my existing web-stack of Ruby and Python which while both far from perfect feel more modern to host / deploy.


I love Fastmail's timezone handling. Hands-down best I have ever used. Thank you!


- I can't do simple things, like quickly adding somebody to an event without clicking the full event view.

- I can't easily create an event spanning over more than a month. Don't bother visualizing it easily.

- Displaying multiple calendars is a mess even with the event merging (45degree stripes turned on) (Event Merge for Google Calendar™)

- I was needed to install "Google Calendar Guests Modify Event Default" (Enables 'Guests can modify event' setting for google calendar by default, when creating a new event.)

- If I create an event I can't simply add myself and accept it

- Event view is boring, lots of things I don't care about. That view looks like a relic from the pre-design era of Google

- Setting up a repeating event is a pain, if I made a mistake god help me. Once I broke something and I had to manually delete two months of repeating events one by one because the repeating nature was somehow gone

- Exceptions are not handled well

- Show me as Available / Busy is dangerous. Should be more hidden, I messed up my coworkers calendar and she got overbooked. I still don't get why would I create an event and mark myself "available". I guess there are use cases, but for me it's pointless

- UI dialogs are inconsistent

There are probably many more, but I felt real pain during these. I even tried Google voice assistant, which was pretty useless for real work.

I then pulled up this video of Apple's vision of the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIE8xk6Rl1w and cried a little that we are still very far from this. Even calendaring is a pain in the ass.


Thank you for this -- there are a lot of pain points I completely agree with here. Repeating events being one of them.

Events view sucks. I don't think the visual information should be equal if I have a list of things to accomplish in a day that are "time locked" or "time sensitive" or "time orthogonal."

Integrating actual RescueTime data into gcal to provide automation of capturing activity would be an interesting angle if I wanted to hack together a solution for that problem.

RE: Apple -- iCal was honestly the best calendar I've ever used, it was just beautiful. Then I cleaned my soul and installed debian, and haven't looked back.


> Setting up a repeating event is a pain, if I made a mistake god help me. Once I broke something and I had to manually delete two months of repeating events one by one because the repeating nature was somehow gone

I eventually gave up and used Google Apps Script to fing and update events which lost their repeating affinity when I accessed my calendar from multiple clients.

Another one: if you have a shared calendar that you want to invite to a meeting (but you don't own the shared calendar), …? This was for the orgs office hours calendar, where copying the event onto the shared calendar means remembering to update it every time we switched rooms or times (as copies naturally wouldn't update if the source changes).

The Google Product Support pages send a strong, consistent message: "we don't care what you think and we don't fix things we can't see the personal use for ourselves"; hallmarks of deeply user-hostile products.


I might be missing something but it sounds like your workflow is full of edge cases and unusual requirements. There's some valid criticisms in there for sure but I wouldn't expect most products to address many of these.


Don't blame the user for Gcal's inconsistent and hard-to-internalize mental model.

Try not to give reasons to discard someone's feedback, and instead identify the core issues which, if addressed, would benefit multiple users.

It doesn't matter how many people are stymied by poor behaviours, if they are the ones making recommendations to their contacts or businesses on what support could tracts to sign…


Consider that statistically if there's any one person having a problem using software run at that acale, a significant number are likely exist with the same problem without speaking up about it.

That's where the opportunity is.

On a related note keeping the same thing in mind with software that you're building is a very powerful tool: "it works for me/on my machine" is great, but it discounts the possibility that if one user is seeing a bug or usability issur, chances are that that others are too - and not talking about it.


1. Multiple google accounts and being told I'm logged into the wrong one when I follow a link from an email.

2. Google wants me to use their web-based calendar instead of my desktop one.

Synchronising multiple calendars is a pain in the ass: I want people at each company I work for to be able to see whether I am free, but I hate filling my calendar six times. I've got some applescript that helps me using the Mac calendar, but it feels like the two companies I do that are google-apps based always break randomly and require some random touchups.

3. Timezones. I travel very often and I want to see my daily-diary with the local team, but there's no easy way to say "this week in EST"


Oh god #1 100%

Very few Google services, I think, are reminded that people can be signed into multiple accounts simultaneously during the design phase.


Google drive/docs is the worst offender here. Not only do they not automatically determine which account you want, but they force you to sign out of your google account to access a second non-G-suite account's calendar.


1, 2 and 2.5 are all huge pain points for me. I have three Google accounts and just resort to keeping about 16 calendars on one account.




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