While agree some internet users are a bit too gung-ho with RTFM, I think it's unfair to lump them with trolls. While veterans can be harsh and unfriendly, the RTFM response is often warranted (though, again, it could be phrased more nicely -- and the default assumption should be that the person seeking help is well-intentioned). Otherwise, many online communities would be completely overrun by people demanding help with minimum effort on their part.
"RTFM" is not trollish behavior, because trolls have a different goal: to disrupt communities, start flamewars and generally annoy the hell out of people. It's not merely being "unfriendly"; in fact some trolls fake cluelesness instead of anger.
I disagree. I think that hand-holding beginners can be one of the best services a community can provide, and it can go a long way to growing the community.
That doesn't mean everybody needs to be teacher/mentor/educator. But the people who don't want to be can also just keep out of the conversation, instead of rudely pointing to some 300 page manual and telling someone with passion and interest to screw off.
Hmm, RTFM is not aimed at beginners (and note: I do agree with the sibling comment that the aggressiveness of the response leaves a bad taste. I do agree pointing to a 300 page manual, without any guidance at all, is unhelpful).
RTFM is aimed at help vampires (recommended reading: http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/eoc/help_vampire.htm). Help vampires do not grow a community; they destroy it. These are people you do not want in your community anyway. Unlike actual beginners, who learn and then proceed to become valuable contributors (unless of course they are treated harshly by veterans, in which case they simply leave), help vampires are never helpful. They ask the same question again and again, don't pay attention to any cues, don't read anything, and seldom provide context or follow-ups to their problem. And when you've wasted time with one (more often than not fruitlessly), the next one comes in. And they are legion. The end result, like the first article I mentioned claims, is that your community of well-intentioned volunteers is destroyed. So a polite RTFM is often the best response: if the person was an actual beginner, they'll read TFM -- and follow-up questions are often welcome, since they show the asker has actually made an effort. If not, they'll leave and you haven't wasted any valuable time.
In fact, help vampires are often indistinguishable from trolls, in that they have the same community-disrupting effect.
Sure, I could see that being a problem, but if the question that the "help vampire" is asking is a valid one, then you have to remember that all online conversations have an audience, and that your response is as much to the audience as it is to the person you're directly responding to.
Even just politely linking a similar question and response is better than responding with RTFM.
> RTFM has always been part of the hacker culture
That doesn't necessarily make it a good thing, or anything worth keeping.
Help vampires do not ask valid questions very often. It's very unlikely a community will have RTFM as a standard response to valid questions (i.e. those that provide context and show effort on the part of the asker), with one exception: when the question has been asked countless times already, and the asker could have seen it if they had made the minimum effort of reading the community's FAQ. In which case, RTFM -- or rather, a link to the FAQ -- is the best response.
> That doesn't necessarily make it a good thing, or anything worth keeping.
But it does make it not trollish behavior, which we were discussing. Hacker culture was not trollish, this was always part of hacker culture, therefore it's neither new nor trollish behavior.
I think a variation of RTFM, let's call it GentleRTFM, is both worth keeping and necessary.
>...one exception: when the question has been asked countless times already, and the asker could have seen it if they had made the minimum effort of reading the community's FAQ. In which case, RTFM -- or rather, a link to the FAQ -- is the best response.
This is actually the RTFM-ish situations I hate the most; specifically as someone searching a forum and finding a thread or threads close to my own question, only to find the only responses are rudely unhelpful.
I get not answering an insipid post, or a mod locking/deleting one but replying to a question you find dumb or repetitive is a waste of time to everyone involved.
Just like "Don't feed the Trolls," I feel one shouldn't raise the post count of a time sink.
I suppose not answering at all is an acceptable solution; a RTFM response does imply a certain irritation directed at the asker (for not doing their homework). In the case of help vampires it does nothing more than signalling irritation to other community regulars, since the clueless undead -- by definition -- won't RTFM or even know what that means.
Answering with a link to the canonical question doesn't seem rude to me, however.
RTFM are usually jerks acting like jerk and it has nothing to do with seniority or skill. Half of those "harsh" people don't know all that much.
Overworked seniors simply don't respond on forums due to lack of time. Seniors with time and willingness to answer answer how they know. RTFM are doing what they are doing just to stroke their own ego.
Being jerk does not imply skill nor lack of it. It just being jerk.
I disagree that RTFM'ers are jerks, for reasons I've already explained in other posts (though, again, there are ways and ways of telling someone to RTFM, some nicer than others).
Other than that, I agree they are not necessarily more senior or experienced. That's why I used the term "veterans": they are old timers in the community in question, have seen countless newbies come and go, and must suffer the onslaught of help vampires with needy requests and an ungrateful, instant-gratification attitude every day. They may not necessarily be seniors, but they are the people who actually form the community, because help vampires ask their poorly-formulated questions and go away forever, only to be replaced by newer ones. They do not tend to "grow" the community, only destroy it by attrition. How would you deal with them?
Again, "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way" ( http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ) should be mandatory reading for online participation in online communities. Some of it is even common sense. And if you don't have the time to read it or TFM or the FAQ, why should volunteers take the time to help you, anyway?
To answer your question, I eit her ignore asks for help I don't want to answer or say that this section of forum is not intended for beginners questions if that is the case.
Overwhelming majority of RTFM ate not trying to manage community. That involves more then just putting in RTFM with some insults every time you feel like.
I agree that some of rtfm consider themselves community and are trying to put off newcomers - and keep their own social status within forum high. That is just closed circle jerk, exactly like any other. Most of these communities have many other members who form them equally or even more and don't behave this way.
Elaborate faq on how to ask question is great and I would treat it seriosly, assuming the rest of discussion has similarly high standards. Except that rest of discussion is neither precise, nor well pharsed, nothing like that. So yeah, where it is consistent with general quality of discussion, cool. Where it represents double standard, meh.
Agreed. I guess I'm not saying RTFM isn't needed (I rtfm all the time). However it's the bad taste that's left behind and the potential miscommunication from the simple action of telling someone to read the fucking manual. There are better ways to get the original message across.
While agree some internet users are a bit too gung-ho with RTFM, I think it's unfair to lump them with trolls. While veterans can be harsh and unfriendly, the RTFM response is often warranted (though, again, it could be phrased more nicely -- and the default assumption should be that the person seeking help is well-intentioned). Otherwise, many online communities would be completely overrun by people demanding help with minimum effort on their part.
"RTFM" is not trollish behavior, because trolls have a different goal: to disrupt communities, start flamewars and generally annoy the hell out of people. It's not merely being "unfriendly"; in fact some trolls fake cluelesness instead of anger.