Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Oh come on. If you don't like Facebook, don't log on. Lots of people chose not to. As someone who uses it a lot there is nothing on there that is required or necessary to live or work unlike other services I use (LinkedIn, MSFT, google, etc)

In fact, FB is probably a detriment to my livelihood if anything.




Parent is not complaining about how FB affects him personally and directly, but about how it is affecting society.

Perhaps you have the mental context and farsightedness to just not log on. But, you still have to deal with the large scale socio-political consequences of the fact that billions of others can't resist logging on, can't resist the clickbait, or don't understand why they should.


The basic point of discussion here is really what is optimific with respect to what I'll term 'information paternalism'. Where do we draw the line between people's responsibility to educate themselves, and the responsibility of corporations (especially "the media") to feed them reliable information?

Ditto "fake news", ditto Twitter disinfo hysteria, ditto any source of information, especially online. At some point the people have to take responsibility for, and validate themselves, what they read and believe.


I used to think that way but over time I've moved much more toward the conclusion that the great mass of people really are not mentally prepared to make decisions in a modern idea marketplace.

Working through the haze of media manipulation is an extremely complex task. It requires a ton of interest, time, effort education, IQ and mental discipline. Most people don't have a chance to resist society-wide campaign of lies; they're absurdly outmatched.

This is the same reason we have enforced pension plans, etc. You could just say people should save their own money. That would work fine for me and you. But most people just don't have the mental context to delay gratification that long. Their brains are not adapted and not equipped for the modern world.

So it's wrong to feed them socially-destructive lies, for the same reason it's wrong to feed a dog well-labeled poisonous meat.


There are a lot of people who agree with you, but that's the easy part. The hard part is: how?

Who is it that determines which news is "real" and which is "fake"? The scientific establishment is a truly wondrous achievement of humanity, but it's not perfect and the idea that there are facts that are 100% verifiably completely obviously definitely true is just flat wrong (and a scientist or historian would be the first to tell you that!). There are plenty of "conspiracy theories" that turned out to be absolutely true (see: the intelligence community's activities throughout the Cold War, e.g. MKUltra). There are plenty of "well-known facts" from the past that we now consider nonsense (e.g., look at the 50s-70s and take your pick from all the things we "knew" about race, gender, and sexuality). I truly don't understand how people think that giving the status quo the power to enforce itself will somehow lead to a misinformation-free utopia. You can pick examples of these theories that (probably) don't have any likely value or credibility, but that's not very helpful without a plan for how exactly this would be separated from the stuff that has societal value.

(And all of that is ignoring the inevitability of the gatekeeper's selectively using this power to their advantage)


The status quo already has the power to enforce itself. And how.

It should be borne in mind that quite a lot of misinformation - particularly historical controversy, or intelligence community activities - is not an "honest mistake", but the result of deliberate misdirection and outright fabrication. It's impossible to measure, and difficult to overstate, the toxic effect this has had on the public discourse, and it continues to this day[1].

I draw a distinction between open mindedness, in the scientific sense (where there is a correct answer that we just haven't found yet), and "truthy relativism" (where everyone's "opinions" and cockamamie stories are afforded equal weight). To be sure, it's tricky to come up with objective criteria to differentiate between the two that can be blindly applied without common sense - but I reject that the difference doesn't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_John_Dasch...


>>Alcoholism is damaging society.

Oh come on. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. Lots of people choose not to. As someone who drinks it a lot, it's not required or necessary to live or work, unlike other substances I consume (coffee, Archer Daniels Midland, Costco).

In fact, alcohol is probably a detriment to my livelihood if anything.


I have genuinely, honestly been planning on doing the whole complete deletion thing for about 6 months now, since the election turned up to 11. You know what's stopping me?

I signed into Spotify with my FB page years ago, and now my entire musical personae is tied to my FB account. This [1] is the closest I've come to finding directions on how to do it, and eventually I will, but right now...it's just so damn easy to stay logged in. Agreed that FB at this point in my life is a detriment, but they've locked themselves into other parts of my life that are not. They know this...that was their plan.

[1]https://community.spotify.com/t5/Accounts-and-Subscriptions/...


i contacted spotify and they were able to migrate my account - playlists, favs, etc - from facebook to my email (i was using the same email for fb). they provided me with a "free month" of premium since i had already paid for that month through the fb account. other than having to contact the COs for a couple of accounts my FB-free life couldn't be better.


sigh

Sometimes I really should just ask instead of trying to do it all myself. Good to know. Facebook Free come this weekend.


"If you don't like it, don't log out" is an easy answer, but for many it's more difficult in practice, especially if your social circle uses FB Messenger or WhatsApp to communicate and plan events. Not to mention how they create shadow profiles of users even if they've never logged in and track you online even if you're logged out.


I don't log in. Haven't for a long time. I encourage others to do the same.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: