I don't know what happened here, but ...

Let's avoid our own bias of automatically believing the engineers are in the right; they are fallible people, no more or less honest or prone to error than journalists.

Every news story that breaks, involving any person or industry, gets the same response: It's false, they didn't ask us, etc. etc. Therefore, that response is not an indication that something is wrong (or right); the response tells us nothing in itself.

"they are fallible people, no more or less honest or prone to error than journalists."

As people perhaps, but there's a big difference in how prone to error someone is when speaking within their area of expertise than when speaking outside of that area.

The problem with most journalists is that they're required to write on many different subjects, write for an audience whose only exposure to the subject will be a few thousand word article, and write all of this on a deadline that is sometimes just a few hours or days. You can't really understand a subject under those constraints, and it's inevitable that misconceptions will creep in.

You're right. Everyone is fallible and I'm all for mistakes being made — We are all human. I also agree that the immediate snap response tells us nothing.

Based on the BI story, I know a few people that have actually already uninstalled WhatApp for fear of a backdoor. What I wish is that there was a better way for these two entities to communicate rather than finger pointing and name calling so that we as consumers of both media and technology can read a better more comprehensive narrative.

Name calling results in reassigning fear. People are afraid of the unknown and so try to box it up in something digestible they can fear less. We tend to blame others because it's easy and cheap to do so. If you are wrong, that means I'm right and so then I wasn't wrong about it and don't have to think about it anymore. And you are wrong, so why would I think about it again?

I think it's interesting the entities are not two, but many and one at the same time. Elon Musk is an individual and he is also part of the press process. My rationale is that the press includes everyone in the press, including the people writing the stories and the people in the stories.

We know Musk. He doesn't know us.

> We know Musk

I know this isn't your point, but we don't know Musk; we know his (intentionally, carefully curated) public image

Yes, I agree. That part of him is his image in the public. It is both him and us at the same time, if you think about it from one perspective.

I don't think the Chris Lattner thing is a war at all. The journalist gave a reasonable effort to get a comment from Lattner, never got a response, so went with a story from a source they found trustworthy. Lattner issued a denial after the fact, and it's included near the top of the story.

I guess it's possible that the journalist completely fabricated the story, but I think it's a lot more likely that either someone at Apple overstated their relationship with Lattner to vent their own frustrations, or Lattner is trying not to burn bridges. At worst it's an avoidable inaccuracy, not a war.

"The journalist gave a reasonable effort to get a comment from Lattner, never got a response, so went with a story from a source they found trustworthy. "

Oh well, can't figure out the actual facts, better just publish whatever i do have?

Seriously. Also, the "i tried to contact you" is clearly a BS defense.

It wasn't a "reasonable effort".

This is a reporter. They know that people basically never respond to interview requests during what amounts to the busiest times in their lives, and so the reporter asked just so they could say they tried.

Otherwise, they would have held the story a week or whatever until they could get a comment. Because it would be just as interesting then if it was any good.

But nope, gotta try to get it out while anyone gives a crap about the story flavor of the week because it's not substantive enough for anyone to care otherwise.

Yes, if you make several requests for comment over several days and don't get a response, it is acceptable to run with what you have, as long as you note those facts in the article. Also, he's switching jobs, not landing on the moon. If he has time to tweet, he has time to check his email.

If you just assume that both players in this story are human beings trying to do their jobs, you'll understand that neither of them did anything wrong.

Several days? The news of his departure isn't even several days old. Even if he asked lattner to comment five minutes after his email to the swift list, that wasn't a reasonable time to wait before publishing.

The same author published an article about Lattner leaving Apple on the 10th, and I suspect she asked for a comment at that time. Not getting one from Lattner, she probably asked other contacts she had at Apple and found one that gave her the story about the "culture of secrecy". She then would have reached out to Lattner through whatever means she had, including Twitter (https://twitter.com/Julie188/status/819216603086733312). I guess maybe "several" was a slight exaggeration, but 2 days is plenty for a story like this.

Umm, perhaps you haven't read the comments here?

The Guardian story was good. Perhaps it is slightly overblown, but it is arguable both ways, and it certainly highlighted a real issue.

Musk is way over defensive and never admits a problem of any kind, and in most of the stories about him there is a problem of some kind.

I haven't followed the Latter story at all.

The dispute is really Facebook vs Tobias Boelter (https://tobi.rocks/), with Manisha Ganguly (freelance, so not really The Guardian) putting pressure on Facebook.

I think it's more that the media is biased against corporations, because positive information about corporations sounds like an advertisement or is instead attributed to the employee. Headlines like "Zuckerberg fires 100 employees" or "Wal-mart saves puppy" seem to be either rare or nonexistent.

It would be a war if all these people were allied together. Neither the engineers nor the outlets mentioned here are allied parties. They're disparate across the board.

Yeah war is probably the wrong word to use — my vocabulary isn't that great :).

Yes, because Tobias Boelter, a PhD student in cryptography is totally a journalist...

Yeah. It's been like this since the beginning of free press. This isn't new.