Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Human Cells Eat Nanowires (ieee.org)
96 points by Procrastes on Dec 21, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 38 comments



Oh this is very cool. Glad to see Bozhi's work getting some attention. A friend of mine is co-mentored by Bozhi and my graduate advisor, and was working on some very neat experiments using this technology to trigger specific responses in T-cells. Basically, the gold nanowires can be used to trigger a membrane voltage differential, and theoretically trigger a calcium flux and then a downstream immune response without an antigen. I know they had successes with nerve cells, and I'm hopeful the T-cell results will show similar success.

Edit: Properly reading the article, it looks like this is either slightly older work, or a different experiment from the one I'm familiar with, which did show success in nerve cells last time I saw the talk on it (and used gold, or gold-silicon, my memory is fuzzy now, nanowires).


My thought was immediately gone to using these nanowires to trigger excitatory bursts in localized areas of the brain, solving issues like microseizures (or possibly large scale seizures also) or performing extremely precise electrical therapy. However as the article says, these cells don't have the same transmembrane transport mechanisms (wrongly called phagocytosis by the article) they relied on so this would need more research, but the fact the wires can generate an electrical potential across the membrane is huge in itself and the rest can come.

However, the application of drug transport is also amazing. Currently a lot of research is performed on lipid transports (microbubbles, etc.) or capsule-like nanostructures to carry hydrophilic or oversized molecules across the cell membranes. Stimulation of membrane-mediated transport for any molecule just by attaching a chemically inert nanowire to them would be AMAZING.


Is this different than cells self-impaling on asbestos fibers because the Si nano-wires are smaller? In the video from TFA it showed some cells with wires going through them that were longer than the cell's diameter.


This was my question as well. There are some studies showing that carbon nanotubes can be as dangerous as asbestos, so it seems likely silicon nanowires could be as well:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-d...

However, if they can make the nanowires shorter than the minimum dimension of a human cell then it likely wouldn't cause the same sort of cancers as asbestos.


>if they can make the nanowires shorter than the minimum dimension of a human cell then it likely wouldn't cause the same sort of cancers as asbestos.

It seems like a tiny knife floating around inside the cell would still cause problems, including genetic damage.

Or did you mean it wouldn't cause the same sort of cancers, but rather new, exciting cancers? :)


"Eat" is used very inappropriately here. As far as I know the cells aren't burning the nanowires for fuel. A more correct term would be that silicon nanowires can cross a cell membrane through phagocytosis, which I don't find that surprising.


Eating is the process of mechanical consumption, not metabolism.


No, if that were true then using a suppository would be "eating". Dictionary definition definitely implies food/nutrition.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/eat

There are non-nutrition definitions, but those concern wear/destruction of a large object by a small object, not engulfment of small object by large object.


[ define eat ] -> put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it.

We say, for example, "the child ate the book" even if the book wasn't nourishment.

Obviously using a suppository isn't eating, because you don't eat with your butt. Unless you're Cartman.


The nanowire isn't food. So by that definition, it still isn't "eating."

"Ingestion" would be a more apt term imo, as it unambiguously applies to more than just food. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingestion


Does someone with a feeding tube eat?


I was on a feeding tube at 17 years old, and the doctor referred to it as "a way to absorb nutrients without eating".


That explains why my dog doesn't understand me when I tell her not to eat the furniture, or rocks. I should just tell her, "don't take in any more rocks!"


You should explain simply that this is not food. Poor dog does not know any difference. Also check if doggy gets enough minerals. :)


That should work, once she understands that she is embarrassing herself and showing a poor command of language by eating non-food, she'll stop!

(It's something she grew out of, like eating logs if they were rotten enough. I don't know if she had pica or was just an even more enthusiastic chewer than the usual puppy)

William S. Burroughs did a piece where a suppository might be construed as eating. [warning crude]: https://www.google.com/webhp#q=William+S+Burroughs+the+man+w...


This article contains a crapload of speculation that goes well beyond what was actually accomplished:

>"But before Tian’s group can turn the phenomenon into a tool, they must first understand how exactly a cell will eat a piece of silicon nanowire, and what happens to it once it’s inside the cell. That’s what the group did in today’s report. [...] The process is called phagocytosis"

>"phagocytosis (from Ancient Greek φαγεῖν (phagein) , meaning "to devour", κύτος, (kytos) , meaning "cell", and -osis, meaning "process") is the process by which a cell—often a phagocyte or a protist—engulfs a solid particle" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocytosis

So, here is what was really accomplished here (according to this summary). Some researchers asked: "How does a cell eat a silicon nanowire?" They got the answer: "by eating it".

That said, it seems like a useful thing to know that this substance will be phagocytosed. I wish they gave more context though, eg is the nanowire biologically inert, is there something special about the silicon here, etc.


Anyone else that think that this might be a bad idea?


I think bathing yourself in a tub full of nanowires is a bad idea.

I think experimenting to determine why and how cells do this, and if it is potentially useful is fun/interesting science.


>"fun/interesting science"

I thought science is not supposed to be fun. It is supposed to be filling out an endless series of grants, which no one will ever inspect very closely, that have mind numbing page-length, formatting, etc rules along with satisfying other miscellaneous approval paperwork and IT/safety training.


Oh that is true, I meant fun and interesting for me. I'm sure every day is a slog for those poor souls doing the actual work.


The Marie Curie approach--very brave.


They call them nanowires, but it might be reasonable to call them a nanoshiv.


after correctly doping them with gallium/arsenic/etc. we can call them nano- chips/computers.


This is interesting, and I guess I have a few questions, for someone knowlegeable out there:

Can these nanowires be fabricated on an on-chip array?

If so, how densely?

I'm assuming that they are electrically conductive, so can we create control circuitry to run them at the previously mentioned density?

Can those circuits be made bio-compatible?

If all there are true, then this might be a good upgrade for existing neural interface devices, depending on longevity.


Anyone know why these cells so readily do this?



Nanowires must be tasty.


> Silicon nanowires are ... so thin they are essentially one-dimensional.

Interesting wording.


I immediately through of other cellular structures that are essentially one dimensional: microtubules, 20nm thick; actin filaments 7nm; DNA bare filament 2nm; chromatin 30nm; cell membrane 10nm; aquaporin 5nm (diameter); water molecule 0.275nm, etc. How thick are these silicone nanotubes?


I'm no expert on any part of that but wouldn't a wire be two-dimensional?

Or was that the point of your comment?


A wire can be embedded in 2 or 3 (or N) dimensions, and if the only degree of freedom for travelling along the wire is forward and back (no thickness), then it can also be considered a one-dimensional line.

I think the use of the word 'essentially' signifies that the definition of thickness depends on the domain you're examining. In this case, I'd expect we're talking about the connectedness of chemical bonds. No thickness should mean it's a chain of atoms each with only 2 bonds, to the atoms before and after it in the chain.


No expert here either, but I suppose that meant the wire has essentially only "length" (e.g. x dimension), and no "thickness" (y dimension)?


*No "thickness" in either the y or z dimensions -- Let's not forget we have [at least] three :)


Usually, a wire is like a long thin filament. Surely, this is closer to one-dimensional than two-.


I believe what the mean to say by "essentially" is the only relevant dimension in this case would be the length, as the thickness is negligible, given the domain under consideration.


See "topological insulators"


How might this be used in synthetic biology?


Can it be used to cure cancer?




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: