We bought a 15" 2016 Macbook Pro ("Retina" is redundant; there are no 2016 MBPs that lack a Retina display.) We also bought a LG 27UD88-W monitor to go with it. (It's one of the few that has a USB-C input.)
I have to say, I'm really impressed by the single-cable solution. The monitor charges the laptop (57W maximum, which is less than the Apple charger, but "good enough"), and the laptop sends both video and USB peripheral connections to the monitor, which acts as a USB 3.0 hub.
One cable. It's kind of amazing and magical if you think about it.
There are some rough edges, though:
(1) Sometimes the computer reports that it's not charging. Sometimes it does. We don't know why just yet. We can always connect the Apple-supplied charger though.
(2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version.
(3) We can't use the Apple-supplied USB charging cable to connect the laptop to the display. The connectors are the same, but.. it just doesn't work. As a technical person, I understand why; but it's going to be unnecessarily confusing to people if two cables that look alike don't act alike. This is going to raise technical support costs greatly until all USB-C cables are capable of all transports and functions and the old ones are phased out. Why Apple didn't ship a fully-capable cable in the box is puzzling to me.
3 sounds like a doozy. Is there any way that the average person can learn to tell these apart once they are out of the packaging, or is it really just a guess and check?
And herein lies the rub of USB-C: It isn't a universal logical interface, it is a multi-use physical connector. By overloading the port's logical functions you introduce incompatible physical configurations.
There have always been charge-only USB cables, they're just not all that common (I believe many mice come with those for charging, but I don't know where else you'd get one). I agree that it is a problem for Apple to be shipping a charge-only USB-C cable, both because this significantly increases the number of charge-only cables in the wild, and because this is probably the first USB-C cable that their customers will have and it's confusing if it doesn't actually act as a generic USB-C cable.
Charge-only Mini USB connectors are a different question. They're possible to build, but non-compliant. Charge-only USB C cables are part of the standard. The difference is that you can only blame cable confusion problems on the standard in the latter case.
> (2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version.
This is why I'm quite disappointed that Apple exited the display business. Small issues like this highlight the different scope of LG and Apple business models. As a display manufacturer, LG is primarily concerned with a display that works well in its primary use (e.g. when it's on) and much less concerned about secondary uses - it's not really their problem. Apple, on the other hand, is concerned with the overall user experience, and has designed their business model around this (including cost centers like customer service / genius bar appointments). LG just feels a lot less pain on this issue than Apple would.
Hopefully Apple can find a way to preserve a certain level of user experience now that they're no longer manufacturing. There's no MFi certification equivalent for Mac, but it seems like there should be.
This is probably also relevant for wifi routers, now that they've left that business too.
>"This is why I'm quite disappointed that Apple exited the display business."
Is this official? Did they make some kind of statement? I think during the even they showed a Mac Pro connected to a monitor but it wasn't Apple. I was kind of confused by that at the time but now it might make sense.
There was also a thread on here yesterday about how they've existed the router business. Very odd, since so many of their customers like having a complete ecosystem.
#3 is because the USB-C charge cable only does USB 2. It doesn't have all the wires that would be needed to do USB3 or alternate modes.
The reason is that USB2 cables are cheaper and easier to make longer. The charge cable is 2m and $19, the Belkin 1m is $22, the Belkin Thunderbolt 0.5m is $22, and the Belkin Thunderbolt 2m is $52.
Also, the charge cable is emarked and supports charging at 5A (100W). Regular USB C cables only support 3A and 60W.
Have you guys tried using this monitor with a Windows Notebook like the XPS 13 or 15? I wonder how the intercompatibility is between the "for Apple" branded LG Monitors and the Standard USB-C TB3 Devices.
>When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version.
Is there a monitor that doesn't suffer this issue? My Dell's USB hub power is linked to the monitor power. I can't plug a mouse into the monitor if I want to use that mouse to wake up the computer.
I don't expect the hub to work when the display is powered off or unplugged. I do, however, expect it to work when the monitor is "asleep", i.e., in power-saving mode.
My Dell P2715Q display does work properly as a hub when it's asleep.
>> My Dell P2715Q display does work properly as a hub when it's asleep.
The P2715Q has all sorts of quirks. I have a pair of them connected to my Windows computer, and when they go to sleep, Windows basically forgets where all the open windows were and disperses them somewhat randomly. Of all the monitors I've used, I've only ever experienced this with the P2715Q.
I also notice that the power output of the USB ports on the monitors is barely enough to charge any recent mobile device.
>I also notice that the power output of the USB ports on the monitors is barely enough to charge any recent mobile device.
That's because it's probably supplying the USB spec of 500ma. That's not a fault, it's how it should work. The usb-looking chargers that come with many recent mobile devices are using a bastardized set of "not really standards" to let them pump more juice through the USB port than is allowed.
It's probably the cable, if they use a data cable it will limit it to 500ma, but if they get a usb power only cable I bet it will supply more. You're right its probably working as designed.
Well technically a USB port should disconnect if you try to draw more than 500ma, and if something does draw more than 500ma it's not usb.
But some do allow it to go out of spec, and if that happens you'll only be able to get that extra power if you are using a "charging only" cable (which tricks the phone into thinking it's plugged into a power-only USB outlet and it tries to draw more than 500ma).
So with a USB cable (that's not actually a USB cable), plugged into a USB port (that's not actually a USB port) you can get over that, but it's not meant to run that way on several levels.
It's one of the things that USB-C is meant to solve. Let the device and power source negotiate on how much can be sent and received by each (even being able to swap which way power is going). Sadly that means that cables are no longer just a bunch of metal in a wrapper, they need a set resistance or in some cases built-in IC's, and that means that now a shitty cable can cause issues.
Same issue with my U2713HM when I let Windows go to sleep. I have only one of them attached to my desktop, but Win10 likes to set all my open windows to a small size when sleep happens. I guess the monitor get's reported as turned off and Windows starts up a 1024x768 "emergency desktop".
That's interesting, because it happens randomly for my two Dells connected to a MacBook Pro and I was blaming OSX for this. Have you found any hack/solution to this?
Instead of "sleeping", they appear to make the OS think they've been powered down/disconnected instead. When a monitor goes to sleep, I can hear the "device disconnected" chime in Windows, which should not happen.
Apple's (now discontinued) Thunderbolt display does not suffer from this issue. I can wake my computer up from sleep by pressing keys on the keyboard attached to my Thunderbolt display.
As to 3: the reason is cost. If you are using a cable with your power adapter, you are only using it for charging. To use a USB-C 3.1 cable for that is wasteful because it costs double what the charging/USB2 cable alone would cost.
They could do that, and then listen to a different group of people whining about why they have to pay $30 for a cable that is only ever going to be used for power.
They've got like a 30% margin on these laptops, and have told everyone that USB-C is the future. So they ship with a gimped cable which will only confuse people because it doesn't have any of the capabilities they're touting.
The company talks big about a beautiful vision of multi-purpose cables, carrying power in one direction, data in both directions, etc. They provide one of those cables...but it turns out that it only carries power. So, imagine if your airline was talking about the benefits of brushing your teeth with good toothpaste, and their provided teeth-cleaning kit just has a toothbrush.
Since Apple's shipping a "random USB cable" anyhow, it would make sense for them to ship the version of it that actually does all the things they've been advertising.
The toothbrush has a single purpose. The cable could be used to charge and to transfer data. It can't be used for the second case for no good reason apart of saving a couple bucks per box. I'm pretty sure Jobs wouldn't have it.
Because a lot of people fall asleep on flights, and want to refresh their oral hygiene when waking up, and the airline realizes this extra will be appreciated.
Now, do people need USB-cables when using their electronic devices? And would that little extra be appreciated?
I've been thinking two of the 4K LG monitors Apple offers next to each other in portrait orientation would be nice. However, the lower UHD resolution at 27" rather than 21" probably makes a lot more sense for me if I want to be able to sit further away from the display.
If my eyes are 3-4ft away, 160ppi probably doesn't even look like it has less definition than 220ppi.
We have no complaints about it, other than the price. (It's still $200-$300 cheaper than the 27" 5K display that hasn't shipped yet; but it's about $100-$200 more than an equivalent Dell display that doesn't have USB-C.) We also wish it charged at > 57W, but this monitor predates the release of the new MBPs.
> When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub
I also have an audio interface connected to my sound monitors, and it is also quite bad for it to lose its power, producing a loud blasting sound. If monitor becomes a power supply, we need it to never stop supplying it, just like notebook doesn't stop when it goes to sleep.
With respect to #2, it seems ridiculous to me that in 2016 we still have to manually eject USB devices from Macs. How have they not figured this out yet? I hope it finally gets fixed next year with the new AFS.
Apple can't guarantee that write caching is disabled on every removable storage device out there, even if they send the correct command to do so (some devices ignore it to improve their performance benchmark scores). The best they can do is flush the data on unmount, which requires they be notified in advance via a user action. What else do you expect them to do?
BTW, Windows and Linux have the same problems. The fault lies with the storage device vendors.
It's for charging only. This seems to be a huge disadvantage to USB-c... you have to buy different cables for different purposes, even though they have the same physical connector.
Can you imagine if AC power had the same plug for both 110V and 220V? And you just had to "guess" which one was the right one?
Which is why it's rare at best to encounter such power supplies in new manufacture, and has been for quite some years now. Instead, they sense the line voltage and configure themselves accordingly.
It's hard to see the profusion of semi- and incompatibilities permissible in the USB-C connector as anything but a regression.
For the socket side of the same problem, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country and search for "Power cords with type A or B plugs which are rated at only 125 V may present a safety hazard" (each of the seven occurrences reflects a country that always or sometimes uses U.S.-style sockets with a higher voltage such as 240 V).
Yep, I bought some fun electronic bench gear, on the back it says validate the 110/220/240 setting prior to use.
On that note, always look on the back for a manual switch. Just to be safe. Its unlikely a regular consumer would need to but I'm learning to change my habits.
The cable is a USB-C cable, but not a Thunderbolt 3 cable. This is confusing, because they use the same USB-C port. My understanding is that Thunderbolt cables have the thunderbolt logo on them.
A given USB Type C cable can be a "USB 2.0" cable, which is only good for USB @ 480 Mbps and power, or a "USB 3.1" cable, which can handle USB @ 10 Gbps and power, as well as alternate data modes like DisplayPort or Thunderbolt. Additionally, it can be only good for 3 A, or it can have a chip in it to indicate it's good for more power (up to 5A).
The Apple-supplied cable is probably a USB 2.0 cable, with a chip indicating it can handle 5A.
Even worse, you can't expect thunderbolt 3 to work over any cable length. So unless all USB C cables become active cables (unlikely), longer USB C cables won't have thunderbolt support due to signal integrity limitations.
Not all USB-C connectors are created equal. Something with that connector can support or not support a number of protocols, e.g. USB, Thunderbolt 3, USB-C power throughput, etc.
In this case, the cable used with the monitor needs to be a Thunderbolt 3 cable, not just a USB-C cable. I haven't seen a teardown of the new ones, but at least for the previous generation there's a bit more to it than your average cable.
Thunderbolt 2 had the same compatibility issue in that it was the same connector as Mini DisplayPort but couldn't run over a standard DP cable. That was pretty minor since it's not like everyone has a pile of loose DP cables sitting around.
On the other hand, your average consumer never uses a Thunderbolt device to begin with on account of them being significantly more expensive than other accessories. They'll likely never run into this even with it using a USB-like cable, and the people who do need TB will figure it out.
Oh interesting, I didn't think monitors could run video over the USB cable and still offer a USB hub on the same connection, but it looks like the DisplayPort data goes over the additional USB-3 lines and preserves the original USB-2 connection for accessories. Good to know.
Thunderbolt displays can do hubs at full speed, the 5K LG Ultrafine has 3x USB 3.1 gen 1, which IIRC means up to 5 Gbps (vs 480 Mbps for USB 2).
Not sure why your comment was marked [dead] but I just vouched it so it should be back.
It probably lacks data lines. It is common for USB cables used for charging to only have power lines and skip the data lines to save money. I believe the USB cable that came with my Chromecast is the same.
Assuming a properly engineered device, the battery shouldn't actually be constantly charging. It should intelligently switch between power sources, as well as enabling and disabling charging of the battery as needed.
I think what is more of a concern would be the possibility that some laptops now tend to unthrottle the CPU when on AC power (or more accurately throttle their already LV CPUs when on battery), which can mean the internal temp gets pretty high and can be bad for the battery.
That being said, we have no guarantee that the power management is being done properly, but Apple seems to really have a handle on the power usage of their devices (even if they can't quite figure out their connectors or software). It's definitely a concern on lower end laptops.
Indeed part of battery quality is to let the device manage when charging happens, but a big problem is that the device is expected to be charged when being hooked up to a charger for a bit.
You don't want customers to walk away from home thinking they have a charged device, but end up only being able to use the device for a short time.
I guess there is some well thought out system to it.
Do you connect your laptop to a monitor without also connecting the charger? My MPB is used in 2 ways: on a desk or lapdesk without any peripherals, or with 3-4 connectors (including hub/monitor and charger).
Probably not huge - my MBP's battery is 644 days old, and I use it plugged in pretty much all the time. So it's had 34 cycles. But it's still got 92.4% of its capacity left.
I just got back from returning my 15" 2.6 i7 with Radeon 450. First time I've returned an Apple product ever. The build quality of the machine is superb. TouchID, display, keyboard and SSD are fantastic. There's something going on with the GPU's... I'm putting my money on the Intel HD but the framerate is extremely slow. Just scrolling a simple web page in Safari stutters considerably. I tried using gfxCardStatus to just use the Radeon with the same results. My 2013 MBP feels considerably faster. The trackpad misses clicks just often enough to be frustrating. The touch bar is annoying. I don't get it. Moving my fingers up to tap a button takes more effort than simply doing the same function from the trackpad. Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. I actually like the new keyboard but the clicks are very loud... annoyingly so. Very jarring. It's really too bad since it's a well built machine. The form factor is perfect. I think software updates will fix a lot of these issues but all at once it's counter productive for me. I'll probably wait till a rev 2 model and update to a 2015 model for now. It's too bad you can't get a non touchbar model with the faster CPU's as well. If you're on the fence I'd wait a few months at least or grab a 2015 model.
> It's too bad you can't get a non touchbar model with the faster CPU's as well.
You can actually get the top-tier CPU in mid-2015 MacBook Pro 15" (i7-4980HQ @ 2.8 GHz) for less than the current base model 15" (i7-6700HQ @ 2.6 GHz). And have it be ~16% faster for multi-core tasks, and some 9% for single-core.
Admittedly, those are synthetic benchmarks, but my performance concerns are primarily related to CPU-bound tasks that should be well-captured in these benchmarks.
That plus the freedom from a dedicated GPU – I am strongly against having one in my laptop –, and I would very strongly consider the mid-2015 one.
The stuttering that you describe when scrolling sounds very similar to an issue I discovered recently where the automatic brightness adjustment feature occasionally causes all multitouch gestures to be very choppy (including scrolling, but also swiping between desktops, activating mission control, etc. -- all of it).
I understand you returned it so you can't exactly test this, but it would've been interesting to see if that particular issue was fixed by just disabling automatic brightness adjustment.
> Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming.
Do you routinely change your volume by only one increment? Whenever I change my volume I have to tap up and down a few times to figure out the exact volume I want, and with the Touch Bar that's just one extra tap (tapping the < button gets you the volume up/down buttons).
No. I may be an outlier but for me its more fluid and faster to hit a physical tactile always visible down button 3-4 times then to tap and hold a non tactile icon and slide my finger down. I'd imagine I'd eventually get used to this if I really had to. It's arguable as to what makes more sense and I'm really not one to be set in my ways and consider myself easily adaptable but my gut tells me that a physical volume button that has to be tapped repeatedly requires less mental effort than what the current touchbar iteration offers.
If you tap the < button to expand the control strip, you get the classic volume up / volume down buttons. Also, as I just discovered, if you tap the volume button to get the slider, you can actually tap the icons on either end of the slider which will act like the classic volume up / down buttons too (even though they don't look like buttons).
Not supporting DisplayPort with an adapter is just insane. Apple's new top-end laptop is incompatible with the most common way to connect external monitors?
I've been willing to give Apple and the new MBP the benefit of the doubt on this stuff, and in particular I don't mind that it needs dongles now if that means we get universal USB-C adoption faster. But the dongles need to actually exist and work now!
They exist. I bought a Plugable USB 3.1 Type-C to DisplayPort adapter off Amazon. It works with my new 15" Macbook Pro and my new LG 27UD68-W 4K display; full resolution, 60Hz. There are also various adapters to plug in HDMI, but they don't seem to do 4K at 60Hz, so I avoided them.
The article is saying that a TB3 -> TB2 adapter and a mini-DisplayPort -> DisplayPort adapter don't chain correctly. I haven't tried that; I assume the author is correct.
My understanding is that it's specifically the thunderbolt-2 adapter that doesn't support further adapting to other alternate mode mechanisms. This might be because of incompatibilities between TB2 and TB3/USB3.1 alternate mode implementations?
It doesn't mean it can't do DP over a specific type-c to DP cable/dongle, which presumably are or will be a thing (eg: https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...). The author appears to want to wait for docks that do both DP and power delivery, if I understand correctly.
Yes, it sounds like it's doable, it's just insane that Apple doesn't offer the necessary adapter (and further insane that Apple doesn't make it clear that the TB2 adapter won't do the job).
I'm OK with the computer using USB-C exclusively, but Apple needs to make adapters available for other common ports. Relying on third parties for something as common as DisplayPort is not good.
You're correct on both counts: Apple suggested I purchased such a dongle. Unfortunately, as per the post, that's not easy; most USB-C devices currently available don't work. I'm holding out specifically for rMBP2016-compatible devices; and it seems a little silly not to wait for a dock now and get the tempting one-cable experience.
There are USB-C to DisplayPort cables. You need some sort of converting cable anyway--the old MBP had Mini DisplayPort and I've never seen a monitor with a MiniDP input.
I have to admit, my assumption for the monitor having both sizes of the display port (vs both being full sized DP) and including a DP-> mDp cable were so that the monitor worked out of the box no matter what type of port the source computer had. All possible combinations are satisfied.
I have an Asus mg279q with both a DP and a miniDP input. The provided cable is a DP to miniDP, so you can plug most devices with a single cable (just reverse it).
I guess other monitors from the same line have miniDP inputs too.
If you have an existing Thunderbolt dock, you can use the 3-to-2 adapter, and just plug the DisplayPort monitor into the other Thunderbolt port on the dock. I do not know why this works, but it does.
With my late 2013 MBPR and ViewSonic VX2475SMHL-4K, all I had to do was use a mini-DP to DP cable and everything just works, both in OSX and Windows 10.
I hardly ever boot into OSX any more - most of my work is in Windows and I generally like Windows better anyway - especially with the crisper font rendering after using the ClearType tuner compared to the fuzzier OSX text.
(Yes, OSX - I haven't even bothered to upgrade to Sierra.)
So I guess my next upgrade will be back to another ThinkPad, and I'll keep this old MBPR for OSX/macOS/iOS testing.
Yes, with Apple's Boot Camp drivers it actually makes a very nice Windows machine. I used to run Windows in a Parallels VM under OSX, and that worked well for a while, but at some point my OSX installation started getting very slow, and Parallels even slower.
So I started using Boot Camp more and found it to be very snappy. Also I was doing some VR work on Windows, and that only works on physical hardware. (The MBPR is not a great machine for VR, but it's good enough for the system integration stuff I was doing.)
The only hardware issues I've run into compared to running Windows in Parallels are:
* Apple's Ethernet dongle is not hot-pluggable in Windows like it is in OSX/macOS. A reboot is required if you want to plug it in. You can plug and unplug the Ethernet cable on the fly, just not the dongle itself.
* By default, the trackpad two-finger scrolling works in the traditional "scrollbar" style (swipe your fingers down and the display content moves up). I prefer the "natural" style where it is more like using a touchscreen. I found an easy registry tweak to fix this on this page:
I didn't use any of the other tweaks on that page, just the scroll direction.
* The touchpad driver is not as good as the one in OSX. Specifically, it's much more susceptible to false right clicks, and it's fussier about the style of click-dragging where you hold the touchpad down with one finger and drag with another. In OSX this works pretty naturally; in Windows it works only if I hold the pad down at the left bottom corner and then drag with another finger.
* And of course, I miss the TrackPoint from my ThinkPads.
The finishing touch was to get one of these Windows logo decals to cover up the Apple logo:
Serious question as two people now have mentioned Bootcamp "drivers", and I've only ever gone the other way (Hackintosh) - why do you need Apple drivers to install Windows on what seems to be a perfectly normal x86 machine?
A little late on this, but in case you're still paying attention... Windows will work, but won't be able to use all of the hardware, since it's not all standard stuff. This Apple support article mentions various bits that won't work without the drivers: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204923
It's basically the same reason you'd need custom Windows drivers for any hardware. It's just that in this case, it's Apple hardware.
> Apple's new top-end laptop is incompatible with the most common way to connect external monitors?
You mean HDMI? On non-Apple/non-Microsoft laptops HDMI is by far the most common way to connect external displays followed likely by VGA and then finally DisplayPort.
Even on Apple laptops, my 2015 rMBP came with HDMI, and I have an adapter for VGA. The only machine I've ever used DisplayPort for is an older Thinkpad, and even then when I asked Best Buy to sell me a DisplayPort cable, they didn't have any in stock. They kept offering Mini DisplayPort, which is AKA Thunderbolt which is built into every MacBook since ever.
"If you need to use Esc to force an app to close, you can switch to another app and try Option-Command-Escape. You can also choose Apple menu > Force Quit."
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358
Sometimes when I use XQuartz and Inkscape or some other X11 app on Mac, it will freeze such that you can't switch apps or use the Apple menu. Option-Command-Esc used to work...
In the video linked above the Apple menu also didn't appear to work, despite the mouse cursor moving, which matches my experiences.
Sometimes when I use XQuartz and Inkscape or some other X11 app on Mac, it will freeze such that you can't switch apps or use the Apple menu. Option-Command-Esc used to work...
Exactly - what not everyone realizes is that the top menu is rendered and events from it are dispatched into the process of the current (active) application. If that thing refuses to return from an event handler dispatched from the main thread's run loop, (i.e. most cases where program has hung), you can't use the Apple menu.
The 2016 13" non-Touch Bar Pro has a 54.5-watt-hour battery.
The 2016 13" Touch Bar Pro has a 49.2-watt-hour-battery!
The components in the 2016 models are more power efficient. But at some point you'll run into physics.
Apple may claim the battery life is the same as before when watching a movie (probably entirely HW accelerator offloaded by now), but if you're compiling code all day I wouldn't expect the new laptop to match the previous battery life based on the raw numbers alone.
I wonder how much of the battery life issue is that the new one has a much brighter backlight. Half brightness should get you about 250 nits on the new one, versus 150 nits on the old one. Tests that calibrate to an actual brightness level rather than a given brightness setting don't seem to show worse battery life.
The users used the same settings brightness settings as Apple on their benchmarks (75% brightness) just to be sure. But the observed battery life was often half that of the official one.
75% brightness on a 500 nit display is insane. Did the previous generation specify 75% brightness setting for the wireless web test? Typical indoor tests are conducted at 100-200 nits.
While, over time, a lot of today's annoyances with the new Macabook's will fade away, the lack of ESC key is a deal breaker for me.
I tried it at the Apple Store and it's pretty much unusable. (It had the seen issue as the writer, apparently relying on the physical click to know whether or not I had pressed it. In addition, I also mistyped it a lot. Maybe hack to replace the whole touch bar as one single ESC key will do it...)
I've been told to remap the ESC to CAPS LOCK to vim usage, but I seem to be one of a rare breed who uses the latter the way it was intended to be, so that's a no go for me.
> I've been told to remap the ESC to CAPS LOCK to vim usage, but I seem to be one of a rare breed who uses the latter the way it was intended to be, so that's a no go for me.
Not really relevant, but when Vi was originally developed, the escape key was in a more convenient location — right where the tab key is now. It was never intended for users to have to reach that far to hit such an essential key.
> Edit: also, Control-c and control-[ do the same thing.
They're not actually the same. C-[ is the same as Esc but C-c is not.
Using C-c to leave Insert mode won't trigger InsertLeave.
If you select a vertical visual block and insert a comma at the end of each line E.g. C-v}$A,
Using Esc or C-[ to leave insert mode will insert the comma at the end of every line in the paragraph but using C-c will only insert after the first line.
Also if you get used then to using C-c in Vim then you'll potentially run into issues if you try to use it in other Vi places e.g. anything that uses readline or your shell.
IMHO C-[ is a much better solution for these reasons.
You can get C-c to be pretty much identical with a little remap
:imap <C-c> <Esc>
Remapping caps lock would be good too, but I already have caps lock remapped to Ctrl and I'm just used to that. In anticipation of what seemed like the inevitable loss of my escape key, I've been trying really really hard to like Ctrl-[ the last three weeks, but I've just given up. I keep opening up Ctrl-P searches or hitting Ctrl-]. My pinky just can't do it. So I've given up and made Ctrl-C work and it's so much better.
> You can get C-c to be pretty much identical with a little remap
> :imap <C-c> <Esc>
True but you're still out of luck in other Vi like places.
As an alternative I used Karabina in the past to map Caps lock into Esc (when pressed and released) and Ctrl (when pressed with another key). I think you could also make it latch as Caps lock by using Caps-Shift but I'm not 100% on that.
Does anyone know if Karabina has been updated to work with Siera yet?
I've stayed El Capitan because I couldn't think of anything I found compelling in Sierra. I'll probably reconsider when Karabiner-Elements becomes a suitable replacement.
True but you're still out of luck in other Vi like places.
Agreed. I use set -o vi in bash and of course my little remapping is of no use there.
As an alternative I used Karabina in the past to map Caps lock into Esc (when pressed and released) and Ctrl (when pressed with another key).
This was something else I had suggested to me, but while probably about 50% of my computer use on a daily basis is on OSX, the other 50% is linux; for all of xkb's data-driven flexibility, I'm not sure whether it can do something like this. And I can't afford to build muscle memory for something I can only use on one platform.
It can. I've been using Caps Lock as Escape across Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X for 7 years now. The various gui interfaces to xmodmap even have an option to do the flip for you (at least in GNOME, Cinnamon, and KDE).
That's easy - what @Lio was talking about was having Caps Lock be a tap for <Esc> and then holding it with another key would be <C->. Is that what you're talking about? Karabiner can accomplish this on macOS, but I can't find a gconf/gsetting/xmodmap combination to do this on Linux. Caps Lock as Escape is easy. Caps Lock as Ctrl is easy. Caps Lock as both doesn't seem to be possible on Linux.
Am I wrong? Can you point me toward more info on this? I'd really appreciate it - I would so love to be able to use tap-for-escape in all readline contexts.
For vim, you can map tab to being your new esc. Chances are you are using expandtab option, so actual tab usage is not big (it exists though, left here as an exercise for a reader )
Anyway im moving to kabylake dell xps 13. After 9 years with apple. Windows from 2016 gives much better linux integration. And its good to challenge yourselfe with such a big change every 10 years. Its bicycle for your mind (c) Jobs.
In addition to considering a 2015 MBP refurb, I am also thinking about an XPS 15.
I find Windows 10 to be an enormous improvement over 7 and 8; they finally fixed some of the stupid little things that have been issues since NT 3.1. Like the awful terminal emulator or the dialog box for editing environment variables. It seems like Microsoft is finally being run by someone who cares about details.
Work: a metric ton of #defines that are generated by our hardware register addressmap generator, as well as a very particular file naming convention, which has a heavy mix of uppercase.
I actually think this is very relevant, just unknown! It's something I always wondered about Vi, the ESC key is just out of reach of the home row, making it a strange choice for a fundamental operation.
I use jk to exit from insert mode, but you still need an escape key to cancel actions when entering commands. For example if I type :wq and decide I actually don't want to quit, I still need to hit Esc to cancel. It would be nice if :wqjk (or :wqfd) would allow you to cancel but I don't think that's possible is it?
I've always found Ctrl-[ to be more intuitive instead of ESC for vim. Strangely enough I have no idea where I saw that Ctrl-[ works as an alternative and I don't see any reference to it in my vimrc so it should work out of the box. Having to move your left hand all the way over to esc is just slow and cumbersome, meanwhile [ is just right there.
Just clone it into your root directory and ensure it's named ".vimrc". It won't work otherwise. Then just restart your terminal. I'd google some things in there if you don't fully understand what they do.
The escape key is still there, it's on the Touch Bar, I have no issues with using it, and I haven't had to re-map it. Also you can hit the 'fn' key and the 'Function' bar and escape key will appear while using any other 'app' that changes the Touch Bar.
The prime issue is lack of tactile feedback. I wrote quite a bit about this in a previous comment, in that we "touch type" because we get feedback from our fingers. Implementing a "keyboard" interface that requires a change of visual focus is not a good UI practice.
In your comment 25 days ago, you stated that the problem is the layout of the Touch Bar changes regularly, therefore you need to look at it. But this doesn't make sense for the Esc key, because the Esc key is always in the same place on the Touch Bar (and is always available while you're typing).
To me there are a couple problems. One is the changing layout as I mentioned and the fact you have to shift focus constantly because you can't feel where things are (esp since they change from app to app). Then secondly the lack of feedback. I wouldn't mind the touch-bar so much if it hadn't replaced keys that some people use constantly. As an add on above the keyboard, sure... while I wouldn't be crazy about it it could be handy for some people. But half the comments talk about how you can re-map keys to work around it... and that to me spells UI downgrade. A fair percentage of people are perceiving this as enough of a loss in functionality they are finding work arounds.
Esc is always available while you're typing (and usually available when you're not). Holding Fn is for getting at the F-keys, not for getting at Esc (though it can be used for getting at Esc too if you're in a context that normally hides that key).
The touchpad is a good example here. I've got an HP with a large touchpad, and with the buttons implemented in software. It's horrendous to use in a situation where I'm mixing left and right clicks, while expecting the cursor to stay in one place (games, file management in the GUI).
I don't use Macs often, but that's definitely one place where Apple is so far ahead in their implementation that it's not even funny. Using the touchpad for anything more complex than surfing the web is much more comfortable.
Does the 'fn' key force-change the touchbar to display F1-F12?
If so, then I don't understand the folks bemoaning the lack of physical "function keys" from their apps, which I assume they mean that they use the F(n) keys, since the mechanics of this are the same.
I'm a fast touch typist, but have never have hit F(n) keys accurately without glancing at the keyboard when I do use them, so I assume I would have no problem with the TouchBar based F keys.
No. You can set the Touch Bar to show, by default, "App Controls with Control Strip", "Expanded Control Strip", or "App Controls". And you can change Fn so it shows "Expanded Control Strip" instead of the F-keys (e.g. if you never need F-keys). But you can't set the Touch Bar to default to F-keys and require Fn to do something else.
Was it not a problem getting used to it being in a different position? How do you find pressing a key with no physical presence - do you have to look down at it, or are you just used to it now?
I really appreciated the no nonsense, non-editorialized description of his experiences. Given the recent political climate, it is a nice change of pace.
The external monitor and wifi issues seem egregious, could these be OS related issues?
From what I've heard, many USB3 interfaces have been causing Wifi and Bluetooth reception problems for a few years now. This is due to electromagnetic interference in the 2.4ghz. spectrum.
I wouldn't expect a high-end Apple product to have this issue though; this is the type of problem you expect from cheap beige box PCs.
You're right, it should solve the issue, however, there are a couple things at play:
1. If you have a newer wifi AP that supports 5ghz, it might allow you to create a separate SSID for 5ghz, which is great, because now you can specify which network you want to connect to, and can choose the 5ghz. band to avoid this interference. Some routers don't let you specify, and use the same SSID for both bands, which means you can't really tell what you're connecting to.
2. Unfortunately, 5ghz. has a shorter range, so it will be less reliable in large houses, or where coverage is weak.
Ever since I upgraded from Mavericks to El Capitan every time I plug in a USB 3 device my Wifi becomes flakey. There's lots of threads out there for people with the same or similar issue. Something is very weird in Apple & USB land.
Apple's track record with wireless is atrocious over the last five years. Over the last four OSs, over 3 different macs (07 mbpro, 12 air, 13 mbpro) the Bluetooth doesn't work for audio at all except sometimes when the speaker so close it's actually touching the laptop. (Works fine in the same space from my phone in case you're wondering if it's interference). Hell, even the Magic Trackpad 2 something they control completely and only works on OS X (currently) can't do Bluetooth without skipping (better but not fixed in Sierra). Same thing with RF dongles from Logitech which become completely unusable on OS X yet have no problems on Win/Linux. I haven't noticed WiFi problems per se, but I think two out of three wireless systems not working on Macs is enough.
"Most dongles don't work" was what killed it for me, after reading several reports that it was really hard to hook up anything reliably to the USB-C ports given the churn in the dongle market I decided to skip this generation and go for the next rev.
We HN users are fortunate to be "in the know" about these issues, because we keep up with this information.
Can you imagine how the out of the box experience would feel like for less-informed early buyers of the new MBP who find out about these issues post purchase?
I get the impression it's going to hurt the "everything just works" reputation that Macs have had for the longest time.
The problems with the new macbook "pro" seem to keep on growing. I am really surprised that Apple did not find the connecting to external display issue in internal testing.
Other manufacturers launched it on a single product that accounts for what, 0.1% of the Windows laptop market? Wide usage with customized support from practically every Mac app is what will make it useful, and Lenovo wasn't in a position to make that happen with theirs.
Lenovo did name it "Adaptive Keyboard" and obviously wanted it to change depending on context, but without 3rd party software support it's not going to offer much. You get layouts for F-keys, home, web browsing, and Skype:
And as far as I can tell, it's just "buttons that move around," without any more flexible UIs like the sliders/scrubbers that Apple is pitching. You're making the "no tactile feedback" compromise that everyone hates, and not actually getting much for it.
Use acceptance was miserable because it wasn't actually useful.
I picked up a new MBP and I have to say I do like the Touch Bar. It's certainly not a must-have, but Apple's implementation is pretty polished. My favorite use is music/volume control. I can control music from both iTunes and a buried YouTube Safari tab at the same time through the Touch Bar.
I'm not sure which key combinations specifically you're referring to. How would I use the old function keys to switch music playing from iTunes to a paused YouTube tab in a Safari window on another desktop? And how would I use the function keys to scrub through a song to find a specific part all without giving focus to the music playing app?
Maybe all this was possible before but I never knew about any of it. If that's the case that's another strength of the touch bar -- I had no issue discovering this functionality this time.
same as touch bar, if you switch the window they have the functionality of the new window. (actually depends if the software supports it, else it will use the old window)
Lenovo's attempt was pure crap, though. And other manufacturers had attempted things like fingerprint sensors on smartphones before that had flopped, but then worked well when Apple did it.
"The problems with the new macbook "pro" seem to keep on growing. I am really surprised that Apple did not find the connecting to external display issue in internal testing."
It is as if they asked ipad users to design the macbook.
I think that's a decent mental model for what we are seeing here. These macbooks make perfect sense if you look at them from the point of view of an ipad/iphone user.
Apparently the "$3000 facebook machine" market is much bigger than the "finally, a unix workstation that doesn't suck" market.
I suspect we will see the share desktop experience extend to other devices.
In an post release interview Jony Ive implied that the touch bar was the first step in a new paradigm.
Imagine the Photoshop toolbar being available on your iPad's touch screen, while you're editing a photo on your Mac. Or playing a video game while using your iPhone for controls.
I think good tactile feedback is fundamentally required as the first step. Touch, even with haptic feedback makes for a very poor experience compared to memorizing shortcuts that use real keys.
Then Apple should have waited until that type of integration was available. This is the first comment that has made me even the slightest bit excited for the touch bar interface paradigm. Controlling your system using your iPad/iPhone would be really cool and I think I would be on-board. As it is, this little touch bar thing on some MBP models is a big yawn.
I still can't believe Magsafe is gone. I swear I save a Mac every month via Magsafe and worry about when I have to upgrade in a few years. They better release a clean version of this by then.
I've actually had a problem with Magsafe. When I'm using my laptop on my lap, my leg pushes up on the adapter, which causes it to disconnect very easily. But I can lift my 13" 2015 rMBP right off the table by pulling straight out on the adapter. Seriously, if you're careful enough the Magsafe charger can support the entire weight of the laptop. Which means it's a great feature if I step on the cable (which pulls it downward) but if I trip on it and pull it straight out, it will always, every single time, always pull my laptop right off the table.
Which makes it worse than worthless, remembering that when I use it on my lap it will constantly disconnect itself. I'm happy to see Magsafe go, I'm just not thrilled that it's not being replaced with something better.
The execution failures are just unacceptable for such an expensive product. The Surface Book was half baked at launch, but at least Microsoft has the excuse that Skylake was bleeding edge at that time. Apple is dealing with a mature stack here.
For me, I frequently use multiple ports and the reduction to 2 USB ports for the non-touch MBP2016 isn't ideal. Also, the non-touch version still comes with all the associated negatives (still 16GB memory limit, everything still soldered in, excessive need for dongles). Plus I really love MagSafe.
If you look at the product code in the link (MJLQ2LL) and check it against the list of MacBook Pro models[0], you'll see that it's a 2015 model. There aren't any 15" 2016 models without a touch bar.
The PC Mag link claims that this is alleviated on routers with shielded USB 3.0 ports while using shielded cables. Are the ports unshielded on the new Macbooks, or are the people reporting the issue using unshielded cables? Is Apple shipping these with unshielded cables?
Here is the interesting thing regarding Display Port: I am using an OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock. I have my dock hooked up to using the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter.
I am able to use my external 27" just fine. I have a DisplayPort cable plugged into the second Thunderbolt port on the dock. It's all working.
This is reminiscent of the way the Thunderbolt Display behaves: You cannot plug a DisplayPort monitor directly into the Thunderbolt Display, but you can daisy-chain another Thunderbolt device to the Thunderbolt Display, and then plug a DisplayPort cable into the Thunderbolt device on the end of the chain, and then it works.
I'm sure you long-time mac users are a little disappointed with the current generation of macbook pros, but as a long time ubuntu-linux user, I feel that linux distro's have comprehensively fallen behind the times and am excited to be with everyone else and have a macbook pro. It's like when I had an android for a long time, and I actually thought androids were competitive, and then when I switched to an iPhone 6 it was an incredible difference, all things considered it was just a superior experience and phone. I had no idea that it was that much better, and was unsure how people ever talked about androids vs iPhones like they were even, I'd had an android for 4 generations.
I'm assuming OSX vs linux distro's like ubuntu is the same thing. The sum of the little things must make you a lot more productive. I cant wait to be honest. I just need to decide, 13 inch vs 15.
When you do everything 1-off, like different phones than every one else, different clothes, different hobbies, don't listen to mainstream music even if it's fun you really get left behind in life & it's a lonely affair.
It was a nice change when one morning I woke up after a long time of running my life in a different direction than every one else that I got to hit traffic with every one else. "Oh, this is where every one is, thank god". I think it's a bad idea to do everything 1-off for some minor advantage in your head.
1. The keyboard. Not the Touch Bar; the rest of the keyboard. There isn't much travel and I'm afraid it will aggravate my RSI. I've tried pressing the keys more gently, but sometimes I'm too gentle and miss keystrokes. Pressing the right side of the caps lock key is unreliable even when I press it fairly firmly. And the right shift key has gotten stuck once already. I'll give it some more time to see if things improve, but RSI is a deal-breaker. I'm considering returning the laptop.
2. The battery life. It's nowhere near 10 hours when I'm doing development. I haven't been keeping close track but I'd say less than 5 and less than previous generations. I think they used a processor which is more efficient at idle and took away a lot of battery to make it thinner. It's maybe not more efficient when working, so the battery life is reduced if you use the processor more heavily than they've anticipated.
3. The Touch Bar. I'm sure I can make it work, but I would prefer to have a physical escape key for vim, especially given that the caps lock key is questionable too so that may be out as a substitute.
4. That going from 1 TiB of storage to 2 TiB of storage would cost another $800, and the SSD is not even replaceable later. I don't want to spend that much, so I have 1 TiB that I'm already close to with photos likely to push it over. I really wouldn't mind having a 512 MiB SSD and a 2 TiB hard drive, but that's not an option. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Apple Photos (or some other inexpensive product) had good support for auto-selecting part of the library to have on the SSD as a cache of full storage on a network/external/cloud drive. (I.e., one library that I could open up and add stuff to while disconnected, view some recent / starred / non-hidden photos while disconnected.)
5. 16 GiB of RAM rather than 32 GiB and not expandable. I gather this lost a three-way battle with battery life and thickness/weight.
Most of these (#1, #2, #4, #5) are the negative consequences of Apple's anorexia.
Having only USB-C ports isn't a problem for me. Losing MagSafe makes me a little sad—it has saved laptops for me—but I like the idea of being able to plug in just one cable to do everything. Those docks don't actually exist yet, but they will soon. In the meantime, I have the included power adapter, a USB-C to DisplayPort cable, and a portable USB-C to three-port USB-A + gigabit Ethernet hub. It'll do.
Nothing to do with Apple per se, but if you have RSI issues, then you might want to start looking into external keyboards, at least for the heavy sessions. (I'm typing this on a Dvorak Kinesis Avantage).
Good point. I have a Kinesis Freestyle on my desk at home, a Goldtouch on my desk at work, and a Goldtouch Go! in my laptop bag. They're all much better than any laptop keyboard I've ever used (although the Go! is a bit floppy). I should use them more than I do. I still want a decent keyboard in the laptop itself, though.
Yeah, it's unfortunate Intel chose not to support LPDDR4 in Skylake, but Apple still has some control here. If you want better battery life, put in a bigger battery. Or at least the same size as the previous generation...
I'm using a mid-2014 rMBP now, and I love it - its a great machine, and I'm seriously content with it.
But for work reasons, I'm upgrading to a new 2016 rMBP, and I'm a little hesitant .. the reason is, I'm a vi user. So I figure I'll get used to the difference in tactile response from the current ESC key to the Touchbar experience .. eventually.
But what I've been thinking is that I'll just map CAPSLOCK to Escape, since I hardly ever use Caps for anything important. This sort of amuses me a little, since I've heard of folks doing this for years, when a real Escape key was available anyway .. but they did it for ergonomics reasons. So, I'm hoping I'll be able to live with that experience as a dedicated vi user.
What I'd like to know - for you guys who are vi users and have a 2016-rMBP in front of you - is whether you think this is viable, or just not worth the hassle - i.e., just use the Touchbar escape and see how it goes. What do you think?
Thunderbolt normally supports multiple protocols over the same plug/cable. The Thunderbolt 2 port on my old MBP is where you plug in the monitor. Thunderbolt 2 matters, because that comes with DisplayPort 1.2 support, which is necessary for 4k@60Hz.
It is starting to feel like the "Pro" is actually more of a consumer toy for gaming and messing with Facebook rather than a real professional machine.
I need to buy a new laptop today. For development, not to play games. The unix underpinning of MacOS always made their machines attractive, expensive, but attractive nonetheless.
I'll go visit the Apple store and see but it is starting to look like it'll be a waste of time. It looks like I'll make a detour over to Best Buy and get one of the high end HP laptops with 17 inch screen, full keyboard, lots of ports, etc.
I can then install VMWare Workstation with Ubuntu Desktop. Add another couple of VM with Ubuntu Server, run them all at once in a virtual network to simulate application and DB servers and develop on Linux.
Done deal. Probably half the money. With what's left over I can go buy that TIG welder I've been eyeballing.
It looks like I'll make a detour over to Best Buy and get one of the high end HP laptops with 17 inch screen, full keyboard, lots of ports, etc.
In another thread, someone recommended shopping the Microsoft store for a 'signature edition' laptop; these are major-brand laptops (HP, Lenovo, Dell) with the septic mess of malware/shovelware left out - just a clean Windows install.
Unless you absolutely need the laptop today, don't get something from BB. They're really not known for selling quality PC laptops. Go online and get something like an XPS or Thinkpad.
If you're heading to Best Buy, what about a 2015 MPB? I would assume that like previous releases, they continue to sell the older model at a cheaper price.
The first time I plugged in a hub with power and HDMI, I got a kernel panic and the MacBook's keyboard did not work after the first reboot. I was a bit scared.
I had a similar problem with failing WiFi on my mid-2010 MacBook Pro.
When I used a third-party MiniDisplayPort to DVI adapter, wireless would not work. When I used the Apple adapter, it worked fine.
Interestingly enough, I found that under some circumstances the 3rd-party adapter will work fine. My working theory is that it doesn't have as much shielding as the Apple adapter and puts out just enough interference to clobber my WiFi signal when I'm far enough away from the access point.
I have a fully loaded 15" arriving on Monday. If I cannot connect it to my beloved Dell P2715Q at 4K@60hz, I'm sending it back. This is clownstickery at its finest.
Hopefully I can save you some frustration. If you got the TB2 dongle, it won't work. Apple suggests you purchase a third party DisplayPort dongle. Make sure it's DisplayPort 1.2 (that's what lets you do 4k@60Hz). No advice on what to buy though; except check the reviews to make sure it works on the 2016 MBP! (_NOT_ the MacBook! Compatibility with the MacBook means nothing.)
They actually reverted back to 2x2 MIMO for the wifi cards. The previous generation 13" had 3x3 MIMO (antennas), now the new one has 2x2 MIMO. So less theoretical maximum speed.
A big caveat I have is that the SSD is soldered directly to the logic board.
I've used a single Macbook for stretches of 4-5 years at points and I've had to pull out the HD when the logic board has died... seems really sad that I'd be tied to Apple's support in the event I need to access data to use on another machine when previously it was something I could solve in 15 minutes.
I got my 15" MBP 2016 as one of the first as well. An important caveat when setting up your system is not to clone 10.12.1 from another system and expect no hiccups. I used an app called SuperDuper but this probably applies to CarbonCopyCloner as well. Essentially the image that is on the new Macs seems to have slightly custom drivers which did not make it into the 10.12.1 release.
Either use the official (and somewhat slow) Migration Assistant/Time Machine or after you clone your drive from the old machine, make sure to use Recovery Mode/Cmd-R and reinstall the operating system from the recovery partition. For me, though it took several hours to install, it quietly retained all my data and resolved all issues I had been seeing with stock macOS 10.12.1.
Any serious developer worth his salt is not going to put up with the utter shit the new MB(P) are.
I know they're catering to "media" types but for any engineer who also happens to be a 10x and well rounded, doing art, music and other fields will feel constrained.
Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later.
I've been using the MBP pro circa 2012 and upgrading/hacking the hardware.
It's aging gracefully and next laptop will be a non-mbp which can run MacOs through VM. Price parity allows much more horsepower and modularity.
Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later.
I don't think that this is a very good good laptop for media-youtuber types either. Just watch Casey Neistat's review of the new rMBP. He really wants to like it, but it's really clear from what he's saying that it's completely unsuited to his needs. In particular, the loss of the SD card slot is going to hurt anyone who uses pro camera equipment.
Now I really don't know which target market they're trying to aim for, cause where I'm standing it's a net miss, aside from the millennial generation which isn't a bread winning one for the most part.
Maybe I'm not seeing their big picture, but as far as I'm concerned, A net producer from technical to art, this machine is a fail.
I see no user's needs being a good subset of this machine's capabilities. It's just impractical.
I have a 2012 rMBP and I'm thinking of upgrading to a refurb 2015 rMBP. I'd like to upgrade to the last good generation of MBP; it might be a while before Apple decides to start making good laptops again.
I have noticed that window resizing is a bit laggy on this machine, especially in apps like iTunes. I wonder if that has to do with the decision to use Intel's HD graphics instead of the Iris Pro on the 15. The Radeon probably isn't going to get activated every time I need to resize a window with a few graphics on it.
Also, I hope Apple fixes the palm rejection on the giant trackpad soon. I wind up accidentally activating Siri quite a lot.
This is a bad time for Apple to screw up.
PC laptops are finally catching up (HP Spectre, Dell XPS, Microsoft Surface, Razer Stealth, etc). Some are not only delivering good performance and build quality, but features that Apple doesn't even have (detachable Surface Book, 360 hinge, external GPUs). And at a much lower price point.
On a slightly unrelated note: aren't SSH keys meant to stay in the devices they are created, and you need to create new keys for new devices? Of course this is assuming that that SSH key was a private one.
I've been a mac user for 12 years, have my current retina macbook for 4 years, consider myself a pro user and want to buy a new "mobile computer". I'm no longer considering buying an apple macbook. OS X is great but with these prices I can no longer validate it's value anymore and looking into buying an xps.
Yeah they've completely lost me with this update. Want a 15" model with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD (i.e., something that will last a reasonable amount of time)? Toss in AppleCare and you're looking at $3K. I have a mental barrier at around the $2200 mark -- I could afford it, but I just can't justify spending that much on a laptop with fairly pedestrian specs.
The thing that kills me is how many add-ons you have to buy on day one just to support any peripherals you've got.
It's OK that Apple has bet big on USB-C/TB3, but the least thing Apple could have done (this year at least) is throw in a couple of USB-C to USB-A adapters in the box.
When I bought a Macbook Pro in 2011, the only thing I needed to buy were some miniDP -> [hdmi/dvi/vga] adapters. The standard set of ports and SD reader covered pretty much everything else I could possibly need. And, it included the 3-prong extension to the power brick, which was indispensible to me -- no client I went to ever gave me a cube to sit at with a power bar that was close enough or had enough room for the brick to plug in properly. Now, that extension is an extra $20.
It would just be a single cable plus an adapter. The monitor cable has DP on one end and mini-DP on the other end. Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB-C connector and is what the ports on the MacBook are. So it's: Display -> DP to mini-DP cable -> TB2 to TB3 -> MacBook. Or, one extra step than the old MacBook needed, if only it actually worked.
Just wanted to confirm that you are correct :) The AppleCare support people suggested I had "too many dongles" -- cheekily, I agree; I would be very happy with zero!
Since USB-C does DisplayPort directly, can you use a cable that has USB-C on one end and DP on the other end? Or is DP over USB-C sufficiently different that you need some sort of active adapter?
Jesus. My friends who use Apple computers always make fun of the "tech shit" that "dos users" like me have to deal with. And how Apple "just works". (Yeah, they say "Dos" when they mean "Linux". Because they think text on a screen equals DOS, the old terminal based OS by Microsoft).
And now I read this:
System Integrity Protection (SIP) was disabled ... csrutil status ... boot into the recovery mode... hold ⌘-R when booting ... open a terminal ...type csrutil enable and reboot ... DisplayPort-to-mDP2 cable to connect to the Thunderbolt 2 port ... get a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 dongle ... Thunderbolt 2 means 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes with DisplayPort 1.2 ... Change the monitor to MST mode ... recover via HDMI ... Apple Digital AV Adapter ... HDMI instead of mDP2 ... third-party DisplayPort adapter ...
I have to say, I'm really impressed by the single-cable solution. The monitor charges the laptop (57W maximum, which is less than the Apple charger, but "good enough"), and the laptop sends both video and USB peripheral connections to the monitor, which acts as a USB 3.0 hub.
One cable. It's kind of amazing and magical if you think about it.
There are some rough edges, though:
(1) Sometimes the computer reports that it's not charging. Sometimes it does. We don't know why just yet. We can always connect the Apple-supplied charger though.
(2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version.
(3) We can't use the Apple-supplied USB charging cable to connect the laptop to the display. The connectors are the same, but.. it just doesn't work. As a technical person, I understand why; but it's going to be unnecessarily confusing to people if two cables that look alike don't act alike. This is going to raise technical support costs greatly until all USB-C cables are capable of all transports and functions and the old ones are phased out. Why Apple didn't ship a fully-capable cable in the box is puzzling to me.