Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
NYPD can’t count cash they’ve seized because it would crash computers (arstechnica.com)
97 points by leonatan on Sept 18, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 32 comments



"We're not corrupt, just incompetent"

Get external auditors to come in and look at the system. Unless the data is corrupt, there is a way of getting it into a useful and queryable form. It would be a shame for this investigation to quietly die because of prevarication from some gifted bureaucrats.


"We're not just corrupt, we're also incompetent."


It's not incompetence per se. They're buying time, either to get their tech chops together or just to prove they won't be ordered around. "It'll crash our computers" is enough to delay the next step, let's say at least six months before they have to provide anything.

Knowing what a lot of us know about "computers," they can get this together in (being nice) a week, leaving 5 3/4 months to compose their PR strategy dealing with the fallout.


And make sure the costs come from their toy budget.


From what I understand 'civil forfeiture' is basically a legalised shakedown, the police can stop anyone and take whatever money they have. Canada actually issued a travel advisory over it ( https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140915/09500928521/canad... )

So is it really surprising there's zero records kept? In other news, the dog ate my homework!


Then they should stop seizing property until they can count the cash. I suspect the real reason involves a coverup.


A reasonable thing to do would to stop taking people's property until they have a system to account for its whereabouts.

I'm not saying that has any affect on reality, just that it would be a reasonable thing to do.


More reasonable would be not taking anyone's property or cash until they are found guilty of a crime and the asset is shown to be profit of the crime.

Anything else is theft by taking


It is by no means an excuse for them, but having done some work in the government contractor sector, this is not an impossible scenario. However, the company that was contracted to build it should probably be forced to remedy that soon, or pay.


I've worked for state government. No amount of failure for any amount of money paid would surprise me.


Curious, what's the biggest amount for failure you've seen during your time in state govt?


http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-polit...

Texas had a contract with IBM to consolidate all of the servers of all state agencies. I believe it was for $863 million dollars and 7 years. The first thing IBM was supposed to was to replace any hardware that needed replacing. They never replaced anything. A ticket to reboot a server took a week. As nearly as I can tell, IBM just underbid the contract, and figured that the court battles would be cheaper than making good on the contract. The on-going legal wrangling was literally constant. We just compiled our lists of grievances throughout our workdays and forwarded them on to our manager, where presumably, they got all aggregated again and eventually made it to the legal teams.

It was pretty horrendous. You could have developers or production at a dead halt for a week literally because a server (managed by IBM) needed to be rebooted, and they wouldn't do it. Managers would call and rage. I worked at a large agency, and we eventually got administrator access to the machines, which I think we were supposed to use only for read-only access... occasionally, we'd get told to actually reboot them or something. My impression was that IBM would be logging such infractions and just try to use them as more evidence of Texas violating the contract or something. At the very least, we weren't really supposed to use the access, but we did.

I wondered how the whole agency functioned with the IT infrastructure that badly planned. If you needed a new virtual machine, you'd be doing pretty well to get your request in 6 months in advance, literally. For them to click through creating when you literally know they have the capacity (because we had some insight into the infrastructure.) One of my managers went to some session, and there were more than 35 process steps to getting something like that done, if I recall corretly. Any step stalls, that's a black hole; you'd better be calling and checking on requests like that regularly, or they just dead-end somewhere. (Actually, nothing you didn't call about regularly ever got done, including reboots.) I think they got that down to 15ish steps eventually.


this sounds like stonewalling to me. maybe they weren't counting on the optics of the headline's phrasing sounding as charged as it does, but this reminds me strongly of, for instance, the FBI intentionally being obtuse in their processing of FOIA requests for sensitive subjects. they're not figuring out the numbers because the headline "$x hundred million seized by NYPD from citizens in 2015" sounds even worse.


Must be very convenient for the cops seizing the cash if nobody knows how much is supposed to be there.


Yes. Quite.


Im currently working on a project for a large refined products company that is run by IBM. Its totally plausible that they created a bad solution. The last 3-4 projects Ive worked on were run by Big 4 consulting companies, and with each I've become more convinced that they are a drain on the economy.


If this were some ancient 20+ year old proprietary system that no one wanted to touch, I might buy it.

But a system built in 2012 can't provide a report on total cash seized? Honestly?


Honest question here... does anyone believe this explanation from the NYPD? I don't, and I find it hard to believe that anyone else does.


It's one of those explanations so ridiculous it's either blatantly false or it just has to be true.


In a way I suppose that gives such a claim from the NYPD the only shred of credibility it could have had in the first place.


And I can't submit to a pat-down search due to my crippling social anxiety.


Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by an improperly tuned instance of DB2.


Prove it chumps. Let me see that database. It's so easy for them to lie its not even funny. Show me the money ... counting software.


Of course you can get the data, it's in a SQL database after all. The consultants only made sure to build the system so that they get paid for everything that wasn't explicitly specified (like querying by a parameter):

>It's entirely possible that PETS, which allows for automating intake of evidence, may be so complex in its database configuration that producing the data sought by the bill would require major revisions to the multi-million dollar system. However, the NYPD has also invested heavily in an IBM DB2 data warehouse operation with the help of IBM Professional Services, so in theory they should be able to perform much of the analytics off-line without "crashing" the PETS system—with a little more consulting help.


> The system...was built on top of SAP's enterprise resource planning software platform and IBM's DB2 database by Capgemini in 2012, and was used as a flagship case study by the company.

That's just embarrassing.


It delivered exactly what the client wanted.


Exactly. This should not be an issue with inventory software written in 2012. Especially not from an enterprise solution used by massive companies and governments all over the world.

I can't for a second believe that this is an accidental oversight. If this is truly a problem, then it is because one of the design requirements was to make this a problem. Either that, or it's a procedural thing, where the value of cash evidence is captured, but not in a way that the system expects for aggregations. That way, it can be retrieved, but only if you know how to do the secret dance.

They obviously have to have this information because they are required to split their funds with the Feds. They just don't want to make it widely available.


All they have to say is "Change the column to (BIG INT) noob".


I want wondering if someone used an INT instead of a LONG somewhere but then that would be giving them the benefit of the doubt that this isn't nonsense cover-up for corruption.


Technically speaking, that story about crashing the system is BULLSHIT.


Do they not have separate backups that can be queried?


Smile of the day.:)




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: