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Why time stands still at 9:42 on iPhone/iPad ads (networkworld.com)
138 points by spif on April 8, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 42 comments



I think one of the reasons for Apple's famed 'ease of use' is because they do put a lot of attention to the details.

When I read stories like this one, it it reminds me of the story about Van Halen and the 'no brown M&Ms clause' in their contracts (http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp). Both are indicators that someone/a business is paying attention to the details.



And yet what, a typography blog disagrees with Apple's type choices? How slipshod of Apple.


The point is that having some kind of reason for the clock's time in advertisements elicited all kinds of oohs and ahhs from the Apple fanboy crowd, "wow, no wonder everything Apple puts out is made out of unicorn farts, if they are this careful about this kind of insignificant detail."

And yet typography, one of Apple's most important differentiators, the one that put them on the map, that sustained the company for years among the graphic artist and desktop publishing industry, and probably one of the most important reasons the company is around today and didn't die off in the 90's, is in shambles on theses platforms. In other words, Apple cares about the appearance of attention to detail without actually caring about the actual substance. And as the blog post notes, Microsoft of all companies has actually taken some time and effort to improve their typography. Sure, Microsoft's font efforts are not nearly up to Apple's old standards, but then again, neither is Apple (as we see).

So long as people like yourself continue to overlook these kinds of differentiators, Apple will continue to de-emphasize them in their development efforts and instead appeal to the people who care about things being shiny than actually well thought out.

They may as well just fire the entire development staff and release a block of pyrite and sell it for $1200 at Best Buy. It will be released at a keynote, with a list of bulleted features. The inability to do anything with it will be one of those bullets. Fanboy blogs will carry on slavishly for years about how Apple carefully designed their pyrite product to fit the lifestyles of real people like them. And that the missing features, like actually doing anything, are the result of careful design activities by Jonathan Ive. Breathless commercials touting the shape of the block, how it just "fits" in the palm of your hand and was polished to a perfect shine by teams of Iraqi orphans, and how Jonathan Ive had a revelation and realized that it "should just be all bezel" will air during the Superbowl and the Olympics, "iPyrite, think shiny."

It will be followed a year later with a 50% price reduction and a new version at $1400, in an ever so slightly differently shaped block, and have a dazzler light attachment you can buy at the Apple store for $39.99. It'll be called the iPyrite 2GS. Some people will try to "jailbreak" their iPyrites by just shooting themselves up directly with heroin and bleach. But Apple will spend %20-30 of their revenue funding police departments and counter drug authorities to lock those people up.

Fanboy blogs will carry on asking questions like why anybody would want to jailbreak their iPyrite. It's clearly the best product in the mineral class. Jailbreaking will just ruin Apple's carefully designed user experience ecosystem and make Jonathan Ive (yes you have to say his full name every time) cry.


I stopped reading when I saw "typography, one of Apple's most important differentiators". I may be living in a fantasy world, but it's clearly not the same world you're living in.


Perhaps. I remember a time, of about a good decade or so, where the only places you saw Macs were in graphic design and desktop publishing shops, schools and movies (in that order). And the sole reason for that was that the Mac had excellent typography and WYSIWYG to printer support. Astoundingly good as a matter of fact.


There was also a time when Macs used m68k. Apple in 2010 is not Apple in 1990.

Apple still has excellent typography. They're simply no longer objectively better than Microsoft --- at typography. At design in general, they're still destroying everyone else.

If there's a branch of design that is one of Apple's "most important differentiators", it's industrial design. It isn't typography. If it was, Apple would spend the infinitessimal percentage of the huge amount of money they've banked to design a couple typefaces.

The article you're citing is also over-the-top. There are some real typographic nits in it, but there's also overt nonsense, like the idea that Apple is selecting its typefaces because they want to avoid licensing fees.


Look, either they are hyper focused on an attention to detail or they are not.

The time stamp on the ads was held up as evidence that they are, with breathless replies agreeing to that effect.

And yet when somebody points out area where that attention to detail is slipping, tptacek and friends comes along and dismisses an entire sustaining legacy of the company. "Fonts are stupid, who needs 'em anyway. Reading is for suckers."

Wonderful, so attention to detail is only important if it's what they are currently bothering to focus on. But if they aren't focusing on it, then it's not important?

I ask that you read and understand the principles of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning


Yeah, I said "Fonts are stupid, who needs 'em anyway. Reading is for suckers." That sounds a lot like me, doesn't it?

If you're only comfortable talking to people who agree with you, why are you even here?


It totally does. You dismissed the linked article wholesale as nitpicking "The article you're citing is also over-the-top. There are some real typographic nits in it...".

What you call nitpicking, I'm calling attention to detail.

I agree with you that their industrial design is top grade. Is it the most important differentiator? I dunno, anecdotally I don't know anybody that cares that the baseplate of the new Macbooks is a single piece of machined aluminum. Are all the buttons in the right places and is it pleasant to use and look at? I think those are important, and it's amazing how often that's done poorly.

But holding up absolutely meaningless marketing nonsense as a prime example of why Apple is the superior design shop, principally because it embodies the concept of "attention to detail" and then completely dismissing something that's actually important like "can I actually read the text on the screen" is nonsense. Really, nobody cares that the time is supposed to coincide with the big reveal at Macworld. But people do care if they put down 500-800 dollars on an iPad so they could download and read books and the table of contents is all over the page and they have to stop reading it after 20 minutes because the typography is a disaster.

We both agree that design is an important factor in product development.

I think we also both agree that attention to detail is an important factor in product development.

We also both probably agree that there are only so many resources you can through at a product's design, so compromises have to be made.

This is where we disagree (and this is why places like HN are interesting), you favor the external design of the product. How it looks on the shelf. Does it catch the eye of the consumer? You're even ok with letting other aspects of the product slip if it allows for a bit more time to go into small details of the packaging. I'm not saying this is bad or dumb or whatnot. But I am making the argument that you have to at least acknowledge that other areas are slipping -- something you and other Apple fanboys seem completely unable or unwilling to do. Basically there are no flaws in what Apple produces. Every one of Steve Jobs' and Jonathan Ive's babies is born perfect and without flaw. Anybody who says other than that doesn't "get it", is jealous or is a nitpicker.

I think that ultimately the utility of the device is more important. I'm willing to live with a little bit of ugliness in the package if the overall device is more useful. If I can use it for hours without fatigue, if I can do useful things I want or need to do with it, etc. If I have to have one more button on the bezel to accomplish that, that's fine. If I have to have a port on the back of the device so I can swap batteries, or stick in an SD card or plug in a usb device, that's okay by me. I don't want those things to diminish the device, I don't want the extra button slapped haphazardly in the middle of the screen for example. Or the door to the battery compartment to weigh 2 pounds. But those things are important. To me, and to other users.

Just because there are flaws in a product, does not make a product bad. It makes the product real. Putting blinders on, becoming an apologist for things lacking, dismissing valid issues, introduces you to group think, fantastical thinking, circular reasoning, self justification and fanboydom among other flaws in thinking; not to critical thinking and objective analysis.


You consider that table of contents mess a "nit"? It's embarrassing.


You should keep reading for a good laugh - the rest is very amusing.


Exactly. You don't improve by parroting details like this in your own presentations, you want to gain the mindset that would make you care about having such detail.


This isn't entirely related, and it's for a totally different reason, but analog watches in advertisements almost always read the same thing, too: 10:10.[1]

Supposedly it's because the watch hands form a 'smile', and this is supposed to evoke feelings of happiness in potential buyers.[2] I'd never noticed it before, but ever since someone pointed it out to me, I've noticed it in _every single_ watch ad I've seen.

[1] http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/intel/08/01/31_eliandtom2_lg... [2] http://www.ubr.com/clocks/frequently-asked-questions-faq/clo...


A watchmaker once told me that the hands in any other position have the possibility of either hiding other features (like date) and/or the brand name. 10:10 is the safest position to avoid these.


That doesn't make any sense in the context of watch ads and doesn't explain why the time would be synchronized across manufacturers and watch designs. The watchmaker could easily change the time for each individual watch to avoid hiding features or brand names. As an example, look at the parents first link, first watch. One of the smaller dials is obscured by the hour hand. Wouldn't 8:20 be a better time to choose considering it wouldn't obscure any features or the brand name?


It makes sense if they want to hide the minimum number of watch features and have nearly-symmetric watch hands.


Today's woot reaffirms this: http://www.woot.com/


One of them shows 10 to 2 still a smiley face though.


Irony: TODAY's woot is a digital picture frame with a photograph of someone looking absolutely miserable.


Woo hoo! 10:10 = "Happy Time"


I've heard it also cradles the logo of the watchmaker so your eyes are drawn to it (which the second link also mentions too).


5:01 would work best: Time to go home.


HTC's cellphone ads (all over buses here) show the time 10:08 or 10:10, even though they use a digital clock. It made me smile when I saw it the other day.


Care to explain why this watch shows 4:14? ;)

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/6a17/


After listening to the interview with the SmugMug guy yesterday, and now this... it's really quite amazing just how deeply Apple thinks about these big product launches.

The desk has to to be at the perfect angle. The lighting just right. The time on the device has to by synced.

I'm not really a big Apple fan (I personally have had a lot of trouble with their products), but I am taking away one important lesson:

When it comes to promoting your product, every single detail is important.


I am taking away one important lesson: When it comes to promoting your product, every single detail is important.

In the SmugMug interview Chris said he doubted anyone had noticed the angle of the desk. I'm not sure I would take away the same lesson as you to be honest.


But design is as much about "hiding" things incidental to the experience as it is about calling attention to the things you want people to notice. Subtle elements of the design may not rise to conscious awareness but still have an effect on how people perceive the experience.


Subtle elements of the design may not rise to conscious awareness but still have an effect on how people perceive the experience.

Right, the desk orientation may have subconsciously influenced people, for sure - I'm quite ok with that claim. But nobody knows if it did. Hell, it might have negatively influenced people for all anybody actually knows.


"Designed by Apple in California."


They omit "Built by Children in China" though, for some reason.


This one hit close to home, actually. My cousin who lives in hong kong (can almost be considered a baby sister) was always at the top of her class when she was little. Something happened between then and now, she's a teenager, and she's dropped out of tougher schools to go to an easier one that trains specifically for computer assembly (kinda like getting a degree in ASP.NET or J2EE), so that she can work for an apple assembly facility (the school has ties w/apple apparently) =\

maybe she's just being a teenager, but it's worrisome.


[deleted]


Excellent name.


Not just when promoting.


Apple introduced iCal on July 17, 2002. Now guess which date the default icon shows :)


Ever since 10.5? Today's date.


Today's date shows in the dock, but check out the icon in the Applications folder: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~f2damji/Screen%20shot%202010-04-...


It’s getting harder to see the default icon, that’s right. I don’t even know whether there is any sort of default icon for the calendar on the iPhone (I think it’s always just displaying the current date).


iWork '09 was released in January 2009. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/06iwork.html

But why does the Keynote icon show Q4 2009?


This might be a bit off topic. If you have read the book "Yes!", the book mentions that caffeine helps a lot if you try to persuade someone. And, the effect of caffeine kicks in after about 40 mins you consume it.

In other words, if Apple provides free coffee to all the attendees for the event, it will be easier for Apple to convince the audience that they just launch one of the best product in the world about 40mins after the event starts (when the effect of caffeine kicks in).

http://www.google.com/search?q=caffeine+40+mins+persuasion


That's a good observation -- I wouldn't put it past them.

I think the relevant psychological principle is "transfer of excitation." Apparently it's pretty obscure, but here's an article about it: http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/pages/6426/Arousal-Pr...


It's quite neat that they work this into the product launch. I was really hoping the real answer were partly because they've read good literature though. Some sort of guide for hitchhikers maybe?




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