Basically, it says it's only useful to companies to decide what to pay their expat executives.
For the rest of us it's pretty much irrelevant. Normal people will change their consumption patterns according to their income and the local living cost. If you move from Rio to NY and then to Tokyo you'll probably settle for a smaller apartment each time.
But the index seems implausible even for its stated purpose. Let's say you're a "regular" person and are happy with x in NY; then you'll be very comfortable with 1.4x in Tokyo, and will live like a king in Rio with .85x. So what kind of stuff are execs consuming that makes those numbers equivalent?
Yes, these lists tend to be aimed at corporate expats with spouses and children negotiating with HR about their cost-of-living adjustments for overseas assignments. So you get a basket of goods that reflects that audience --- big flat in an expat-friendly district, private schools, foodstuffs which are available locally in NY but have to be imported in Shanghai, etc.
What Hacker News really needs is a list of cities ranked on minimum cost of living: how little can a foreigner spend on housing, meals, entertainment, etc. in a given city, without being in danger of crime, disease, ceiling collapse, frostbite, or an unstable internet connection? That figure is far lower in Shanghai and even Hong Kong than in New York ...
>> "What Hacker News really needs is a list of cities ranked on minimum cost of living"
That is an awesome request, and I would gladly help compile some figures if someone wants to take point on such a project.
Anecdotally, I lived for several years in Southeast Asia (2002-2004) and at that time Hồ Chí Minh City in Việt Nam definitely had the best "hacker price index". Cost of living was miniscule, yet internet connectivity was still decent. (Better than, for example, Bangkok or KL.)
I live in Asunción and the Internet connectivity sucks in general :(
This is a link to an ADSL ISP http://www.click.com.py/planes.php if you want to see prices
I would expect that there are plenty of small US cities that are cheap for those who don't want to deal with a new country while they are trying to set up a startup, however....
These charts are a thinly veiled ad for the publications for the Economist Intelligence Unit, which publish the full figures for quite a lot more money than you buy the Economist for. They are interesting, but if you really need the beef, well then you pay.
It depends on whom they surveyed. If they surveyed white collar workers and Western expats, the cost of living in Shanghai could very well be that expensive. If they surveyed migrant workers... no, it definitely is not.
Also, peg aside, the RMB has been strengthening in value over the past decade, and the Euro, I believe, has definitely gained against the dollar. So while NY may be expensive in the US, it is increasingly cheap when compared to certain other countries.
The best mix of price and quality of life I've found is Taipei, Taiwan. You can live very cheaply - cheap rent, the street food and convenience store food is remarkably good, cheap transit, lots of cheap access to technology, nature, art in the city and surroundings.
I was really blown away with the quality/price mix. I figure the government must be artificially keeping the Taiwan dollar down - I literally couldn't figure out any other explanation for why it'd be so cheap. The place is absolutely wonderful and I think has something to offer most people. I like Japan a lot, but Taiwan has 90% of the quality of the life, cleanliness, and conveniences at less than half the price. Worth checking out for anyone in the area, it's a city I could live in.
They're also pretty liberal about giving living/working permits, long term touring visas if you can prove you have funds, or letting you visa run as much as you want. Only downside is that visa waiver is only 30 days, but there's short hops to lots of interesting places nearby if you want another 30 days. Taiwanese people are generally pretty welcoming and it's easy to make friends there, too - highly recommended.
Yes, the government tries to keep price down for exporters. The BigMac index shows the BigBac exchange rate of the New Taiwan Dollar is around 23 NTDs = 1 USD, but the official exchange rate for the moment is around 32 NTDs = 1 USD.
The house price in Taipei can be as high as New York City in Xin Yi, DaAn districts. But generally the rent of an apartments in DaAn district for a 2000 sq ft doorman elevator building is around $1,600 to $2,000 USDs.
There drawbacks to live in Taipe. Although English is taught in schools, people still have problems to communicate in English. To be able to live like locals, you need to be able to speak Mandarin or Taiwanese dialect well enough, and be able to read signs in Engrish and guess what authors meant.
is Taipei behind the Great Firewall? What kind of price is normal for middle of the road livable apartment in a central location with a stable net connection and food / incidentals per month in your experience?
For the record, Sydney figure in my experience is about 2.5k AUD per month, Tallinn figure in my experience is about 900 AUD.
Taiwan is NOT RULED by China. There is no restriction to access Internet in Taiwan. But the bandwidth to U.S., Europe is limited due to number of undersea optical cables available.
Once in a while the cable between Taiwan and Hong Kong or Japan was cut off by fishing fleet by accident, it usually takes weeks for bandwidth to resume to previous level.
Anecdotally this seems true to me—when moving to London 4 years ago I was taken aback by the cost, but recent visits to my hometown of Sydney has also surprised me at how much it's "caught up" with London.
Bit surprised Moscow is lower than London—it cost the earth when I was there a couple of years ago.
In the article, Moscow's drop in price is attributed to the drop in the Rouble against the Dollar...this feels right to me also since Russia has been less openly aggressive recently, which would lead to a cheaper cost of living I guess.
Frankfurt is a financial center and has a huge airport hub. Since these rankings are based around 'executive-level' compensation, these things make a major difference.
though some media reports may say otherwise, australia hasn't had a significant decrease in property values in the last 5 years.
there are some isolated cases of properties/suburbs falling significantly in price, but absolutely nothing like what has happened in the united states.
in particular, inner city areas have continued to experience growth year on year.
While low expenses are a good thing, I've learned the hard way I'd much rather pay higher rent to live somewhere I am happy, than to halve my expenses and live somewhere not as nice.
On the other hand, I think I'd appreciate almost any of the cities on this list.
The fluctuation of the dollar has no impact if your entire income and expenditures are all in a different currency. But as others here mention, this kind of chart is mostly for "expats" living in a bubble.
Chicago is 36 and it has had its fair share of crime. Al Capone? Mayors that bulldoze operating airports in the middle of the night because they want to build a park there?
You'll need to be more specific. They have really nice ones Levallois, Neuilly, Versailles. And not so nice ones: St. Denis, aubervillier. If you take the train from CDG to Paris than you only see the bad. The train from Orly to Paris has lots of nice areas. Anything by La Defense and Versailles has as sizable expat population, ie. $£€, so they are well off.
Just like New York's South Bronx doesn't surround the city. The bad suburbs don't surround Paris.
Yes, but it's not about the suburbs in this survey.
Paris suburbs are a lot more cheaper, and many of my friends flew Paris to get there.
Paris is appealing to the wealthy and old people,and because of them the costs of real estate are sky rocketting, a lot of young people cannot afford an appartment in Paris.
And 10 euros a beer when the average income is 1500 euros/months is ridiculous.
I want cheap beer !
I seem to remember that beer everywhere in France is comparatively expensive to Germany or the UK, for example. I also seem to remember that really good wine is surprisingly affordable - certainly in France I would always drink wine and not beer.
You do realise that Australia was originally founded as a penal colony. And that about 50% of the First Fleet (thus 50% of the entire colony/city) were convicts. Wiki tells me that about 165,000 convicts were sent here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia
Every city on the list has a prison. Not many of them were originally intended to be a prison.
I'm with you. I'm in SF now but Chicago was home for a long time just a year ago. What's changed? It was on-par with Dallas with rents and overall cost of living.
That is with the glaring exception that Dallas has no income tax but a high sales tax. Chicago has both.
http://eiu.enumerate.com/asp/wcol_HelpIndexCalc.asp
Basically, it says it's only useful to companies to decide what to pay their expat executives.
For the rest of us it's pretty much irrelevant. Normal people will change their consumption patterns according to their income and the local living cost. If you move from Rio to NY and then to Tokyo you'll probably settle for a smaller apartment each time.
But the index seems implausible even for its stated purpose. Let's say you're a "regular" person and are happy with x in NY; then you'll be very comfortable with 1.4x in Tokyo, and will live like a king in Rio with .85x. So what kind of stuff are execs consuming that makes those numbers equivalent?