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Ask HN: Would you use/participate in a translation site like this? (gaiagps.com)
32 points by andrewljohnson on Feb 21, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 36 comments



Hey andrew,

I've been working on launching a site like this for the last 5 months. Feel free to check it out: http://www.caterpi.com/

Also some competitors in the same space: http://onehourtranslation.com and http://mygengo.com


Cool site, dead simple. You might want to make the services page more friendly, though. I know 3 languages, so you're expecting me to enter 6 combinations by hand, one by one? Why not just let me state which languages I know, and generate all combinations? Then allow editing of rates for all of them on one page.


Thanks for the feedback algorias. I'll definitely give it some thought.


Oh, groovy!

I like your site. It seems fast and simple, though I didn't step totally through the process. You don't require a lengthy sign-up, and it's obvious what I pay and what I get.

You have set up your site a lot like the traditional sites it seems, whereby you manage the stable of translators. Did you consider doing the site more like 99Designs, where the crowd decides without mediation?


Thanks for the feedback!

I don't think of Caterpi as something to manage translators; it's more of a platform for translators. This is an important distinction to make, since traditionally, translation agencies frown upon direct communication between translators and their clients.

I haven't really thought about having the crowd compete to win a translation contest. It seems like it could be viable for long/costly translations, where each competitor would submit a small portion of the translated text.

If you're looking for more information, I'd check out mygengo's blog. It turns out the majority of their translations are for short snippets of text (such as emails). I do think that translation is a big market, and that it's only going to get bigger -- so it's definitely worth researching.


Transifex is probably a competitor in this space (http://www.transifex.net/).

One of the problems that I've had with lowest bidder translations is that the cost of a poor translation can be quite high. Working on a large real estate management application a few years ago, we hired a firm based on cost alone for a bunch of translations; and they did some weird things like using the word for "zipper" when we wanted "zip code". The translations were generally correct, but little things like that really made us look pretty bad in the eyes of our international customers.

So, my point is that I would go out and look for a company that had a good translation track record before trusting the public face of my company to someone on the basis of cost.


I'm hoping that some crowd-sourcing features will handle quality better. For example:

1) Similar to 99Designs, etc, everyone could vote on quality, so that could give you some confidence in the text.

2) Translator users could accumulate karma and reviews.

3) Translators' previous work would be public for inspection, and you could see comments and votes on previous work.

4) The requester could seek higher quality by offering a higher price.


I think double-checking results would bring the most benefit, especially if done by a native speaker of the target language. They don't have to understand the source language, just point out that a sentence makes no sense or uses awkward grammar.


They don't have to understand the source language

Find the mistake in the following sentence which cost my company $X (can't tell you, but it is eyepopping):

"The subject registration screen should list the lecture subject name, drawn from the database table for the lectures subject name."


I can find at least one grammar mistake.

There should be an apostrophe in lecture's.

Did that cost you money?


Your correction was precisely what cost $X.


Can you explain why this cost money without revealing too much?


There is a long standing tradition at a major customer of my company, unrelated to this system, that any worker anywhere on the line can hit a Big Red Button which will stop the line if they detect a quality issue. Hitting the Big Red Button has immediate costs: it delays production ($$$), it incurs overtime expenses to get the lost production back ($$$), it throws your supply lines into chaos ($$), it causes you to miss targets with your customers and pay out contractual damages ($$$$$$), etc, etc.

Hitting the Big Red Button on a software project is cheaper, but not free. (For example, the Big Red Button plan for customer acceptance testing might sound like "Nobody goes home if there is an unknown risk to delivery", and a translation error anywhere means there is an unknown risk to delivery until you have verified that whatever process introduced the error was not similarly out of control elsewhere.)


Yes, double-checking like the way 'recaptha' sign up forms work! Two images re-confirmed by millions across the web.

Great idea.

I wonder if there are other ways to confirm data in other instances... (Where recaptha-like processing is n/a).


I actually submitted this exact idea to YC last year. Here are some competitors: http://translationcreation.com/ (site down at time of writing) http://www.proz.com/

The YC-segment could probably be convinced to use something like this (I'd use it if the editing/checking worked well). I know of several tech-startups that use mturk in a way similar to what you describe.

A big hurdle for wider uptake would be confidentiality of texts to be translated.


Care to share your application, or even just the relevant business-plan type parts?


done.


Thanks, this is a very interesting read. Also, I'm jealous of your adventures to Mt. Everest, the Great Barrier Reef, and MIT :)

I made it up Kili once, but Everest is a different beast.


I would also be interested in checking this out if possible. Did I miss the link? Thanks.


I would use it to localize my iPhone apps. I currently use OneHourTranslation and they are pricey at $0.07/word. Make it half that and I will switch.

Extra points:

  * have the translators know about iPhone and the app, 
    so that they have context
  * support for incremental translation (so that terms 
    stay consistent as you add features)
  * automatically validate .strings file format on submission.


I like the incremental translation idea. I worry about all my translations breaking when we do a big update and change stuff.

If you could get set up with translators you liked, and the site facilitated long term relationships, that would be really powerful. The site would need some sort of specialized, versioned CMS.


The site supports long term relation with specific translators I liked. You simply ask them and they arrange it.

They dont do version control yet, that would be nice and as for price it is the lowest price I found for professional translation. They charge the same price for all languages and they dont charge extra for fast delivery.

Google is free but I would use it only for reading never for writing.


Which site are you talking about?


When you talk about "competing sites" that seems a bit off, since your site doesn't exist yet. It took me a while to figure this out.

One way to find rough use data would be to find the existing sites, then plug them into http://quantcast.com and look at the traffic numbers.


It's just a feeling, so please take it with a grain of salt, but I think people see mechanical turk a bit like a game on which they can win small amounts of money. Turning it into work and making people translate for cash (as opposed to entertainment) is likely to lead to higher rates.


I think your feeling is way off. The people I have dealt with on MTurk view it as work, and to most of them, five American dollars is a great deal of money.

I have met people who call themselves freelance translators, and after they finish my translation, they are eager for more at the same rate.


While not for iPhone Apps, Facebook's translations for Connect sites works similarly: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Internationali...


Very interesting. What were your challenges with respect to the machine translations specifically? Also, can you post or share the MTurk ads you use/d?


I originally just posted the text and asked for a translation. But, even though I said "no machine translations" I still would get tons.

This ad has been the most effective for me:

Translate a bit of English text into another language.

Please email me at andrew@gaiagps.com to tell me what language you want to translate to, and I will email you the text to translate. The potential languages are Spanish, Portuguese, German, Dutch, Swedish, Italian, French, Russian, Japanese, and Korean. No other languages are needed.

Do not use an automatic translator. I have checked all of them. You shouldn't email me unless you are a native speaker. If you do not have Chinese relatives or a degree in Chinese from a university, then you cannot do the Chinese translation. The same goes for all the other languages.

I have gotten hundreds of responses, mostly from Indians who claim to do the translation, but they use an online translator. If you are one of these, don't bother - you are just wasting your time. If you are a special guy in India who knows Russian or some other language, then send me a really convincing email, or I'm just going to delete it with all the spam.


Nice technique. Another idea might be to select some standard text (eg: some news article) that you predetermine, and run it through several online translators, and compare what you get back from the humans to those. You might also include a 'turing test' sentence in there like: "obama talked to the bushes about their time in office".


yes we would use this. we used mturk for translations and had it setup for multiple entries. This would help us significantly and we would pay. hth


interesting! What type of data are you translating (iphone app text, webapp text, etc)? Can you elaborate on your experience with mechanical turk? What did you notice to be the major problems/inconveniences?


Yup, we were talking about localizing a bunch of strings for our app just yesterday. Specifically need Malay, Spanish and French.


Do you mind sharing what kind of app you're trying to localize (iphone, web, etc)?


Another strong competitor - http://www.tomedes.com


whats the idea with getting into a segment that is crowded already? do you have something better?




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