Author here: I encourage anyone that is curious about the reason for this framework as opposed to X to read the project's architecture document https://github.com/timothycrosley/hug/blob/develop/ARCHITECT.... Some highlights: it allows some of the most concise Python code, produces automatic documentation, supports annotation based validation and argument transformation, automatically enables version management, and is way faster then Flask / Django at handling requests. Also, I'm free to answer any questions you may have :)

> produces automatic documentation, supports annotation based validation and argument transformation

These aren't new, though the approach to them seems quite clean.

> automatically enables version management

There's syntax sugar in the decorators for supporting versioned api's, sure.. but you still need separate functions for each version. I think the wording oversells the feature a bit.

> and is way faster then Flask / Django at handling requests

In what configuration? Pretty much anything is faster than Flask's included development server. Is it faster than Flask configured with nginx over wsgi? If so, how much faster? The best way to convince people of this is to not only post benchmark results, but also commit the benchmarks themselves so people can run them.

Project looks neat but Flask is well though out, well supported, has amazing documentation, and supports both Python 2.x and 3.x.. which leaves little reason to switch (with the exception of the CLI interface.. which I can't deny is pretty darn cool).

You can see the performance difference bench-marked by a competing framework non the less, here: http://pycnic.nullism.com/ These are done running a standard uwsgi setup for all frameworks (even playing ground).

> These aren't new, though the approach to them seems quite clean.

This is really the crux of it, nothing is new. That is before Flask etc you could do everything you can do with Flask now, but the approach was bad and not clean. Required a lot of duplication of work. Flask helped fix that. You can do the hug enables through flask now, but the approach isn't clean, they require a lot of duplication of work. Hug fixes that.

The same reasons people started using Flask are the same reasons they should start using hug. It provides a cleaner, faster, and better base for the APIs of the future - just like Flask did when it came along.

I would be interested to see the benchmarks against Pyramid, because it tries to be really minimal while at same time it is very friendly and flexible if you want to write REST API's with it.

Pyramid is included in the benchmarks linked to. Hug is faster then pyramid but slower then falcon.

How well it understands types? Could I generate TypeScript interfaces for each API call?

I'm not that interested in RESTfullness, but rather easily navigable API through auto-completion. E.g. /users/save/ would become "Users.Save()" in JavaScript/TypeScript, with interfaces.

Why is it way faster than Flask? Are there any changes that can be made to Flask to improve the speed?

Would it be silly to use both Flask and Hug?

There's a bunch of reasons, but they really come down to a focus on memory efficiency and knowledge of how certain things perform on Python (using hasattr instead of isinstance where applicable, using __slots__, only processing things when it's clear they need to be processed). And then for extra measure: Cython compilation. You can see a competing frameworks benchmarks showing the result of all this work here: http://pycnic.nullism.com/

That's really cool, thanks.

Any comparison with Mozilla Cliquet? [1] At a first sight, they have auth, hug has cli. Other things that I'm missing?

[1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/cliquet

cool stuff! but it seems good for small projects rather than large project for production websites.

PS: how did you create the gif with the code?

Neat, but it's almost like Flask/bottle. Wouldn't some of the unique features be better implemented on top of a well established microframework?

The API versioning bit is interesting, it would work well as a Flask decorator.

author here: This is way more then Flask/Bottle, I understand what would make you reach that conclusion, but if you look here https://github.com/timothycrosley/hug/blob/develop/ARCHITECT... You can see just how much it adds that really are core concepts that can't be done with simple decorators on-top of Flask.

Highlights:

- Automatic documentation - Type annotation based validation and transformation of input fields - Directives to inject more data (like request data) into existing functions in a safe and reusable way - It's easily twice as fast at handling requests as Flask, making Flask a rather horrible base for any competitor

I would argue that it handles requests twice as fast because it contains about half as many features. And I've added automatic documentation to many of my flask projects. Not knocking on your excellent project, just suggesting you stop knocking on Flask, which is an excellent wsgi server.

Hug contains the features flask contains. I haven't and I don't think you will in this entire thread see a single example of someone actually pointing a feature missing in hug that is relevant for APIs (not HTML websites like Jinja)

Likewise. Flask surely isn't the end-all, be-all of web frameworks, but I've added autodocs to it for a past employer that included full autodiscovery. It's not exactly trivial but it's far from difficult.

This looks very interesting, thanks for posting. I love the simplicity of adding the CLI, versioning, and web API.

@timothycrosley, if you're still monitoring this thread... :) ... a handful of questions:

Is HUG "production ready"? Could or should I use this to power a service with thousands of paying users? Is anyone currently doing this?

Is HUG likely to be around in a couple of years? I'm sure we all hope that it will be :) I guess I'm curious about how much time and resources you can dedicate to this.

Perhaps in summary I should just ask: why wouldn't developers just use Django, for example? While Django may be comparatively complex it also brings a degree of confidence, being "battle hardened" and having a recent cash injection from Mozilla. (I'm sure other frameworks may have similar boasts.)

I appreciate that these questions might be seen as cynical or snarky -- they're not intended to be, I'm genuinely curious. There's a huge amount of frameworks churn at the moment. It seems like a precarious area to be launching a product, and some confidence-boosting info regarding longevity and production-suitability would be greatly appreciated.

Hi @austinjp,

I would be more then happy to answer your questions!

1) Is HUG "production ready?": YES! Several large companies have emailed me or chatted with the community for support for their already in production APIs. Based on my communications for instance, I know for a fact that one API hosted with hug is leveraged by at least 10 fortune 100 companies.

2) I have several projects, that I continue to support like isort which are several years old. I don't abondon projects, and hug is already at the point where it isn't my project but a community project which has upwards of 16 contributors already.

The real reason to use hug instead of Django is because your code and therefore your liability and maintance cost will be drastically lower. In every example where I've ported or seen an API ported it's been upwards of 90% code reduction. In several cases even if hug just all the sudden went away, your cost for maintaining hug itself would still be smaller then using code developed on-top of Django. It's a major enough improvement not to be able to be ignored.

Thanks!

~Timothy

Hi Timothy, reply much appreciated -- sounds good.

Hmm, does it offer anything over Pyramid/Cornice? Pyramid is also quick and easy to start (i.e. "Micro") and allows to extend a project to a full featureset when necessary (Auth, Routing, Model,...).

edit: Sorry I don't add anything more constructive to the discussion. Hope author does not feel discouraged, writing OSS and then getting asked "What's the point?" sure is disheartening.

Thanks! This looks great, will definitely try it out.

One question, what would be the recommended way to define complex data types? E.g.

    def stuff(arg1: int, arg2: dict):
        return 'Ok'

where arg2 would be a dictionary that should contain specific, predefined fields? This might also instead be a general question about Python type hinting

I'm a contributor to the hug project.

we are currently working on a way of doing this which should be released to the development version this week and will be released with version 2.0

basically the modification would allow you to create a new type which has multiple predefined fields. like so:

    class User(Type):
        username = Chain(text, LongerThan(10))
        password = Chain(text, LongerThan(10))

After creating this type you could then use it as a type as normal

    def stuff(arg1: int, arg2: User):
        return 'Ok'

May I make a suggestion? Please, PLEASE use a standardized Python modeling tool like Schematics, Marshmallow, etc. as your description language. Then your users can use the same models for their REST framework as for their ORM and everything else.

I'm begging: please do not reinvent this. Just don't.

kstrauser: Hug supports marshmallow! Right now, you can use Marshmallow types out of the box for any API call just set the Marshmallow type as the type after the annotation and it will work and validate as expected :)

Excellent, thanks!

Nice work, I'll have to investigate this as opposed to standard Falcon.

This is generally discouraged, I would change these in the readme:

    .format(**locals())

Interesting; I hadn't seen that before, and as soon as I saw it I thought "ooh shiny!". Is there a quick reason why I shouldn't use it?

It isn't forbidden, just that it might leak information, doesn't perform well, and is unsightly. Py 3.6 should have the syntax to simplify, without locals/globals:

    f'Hello, {name} {age}'

As for leaking info, your Py3.6 example leaks exactly as much (i.e., what is referenced in the literal). In fact you could consider it syntactic sugar for the locals() (although faster I guess).

Yes, but it's unsafe for another reason. The new syntax can be verified statically by tools like Pylint. A call to locals() is hard to verify.

The locals() function itself could for instance have been replaced by something else. When using locals(), you won't know until execution time if a local variable, required for the interpolation is missing. Even worse, linter tools (pylint, pyflakes, jedi, ...) are now going to tell you that certain variables are not used, and people are going to remove it without thinking that somewhere a locals() call is going to use it. This is very bad. Actually, the effects of using locals() cannot be verified statically, even more because locals() is also a writable dict.

For f-strings, the name bindings are static, and editors are going to understand it while editing.

> This is very bad.

There's no need for hyperbole. The fact that `locals()` doesn't work well with linters is a bummer, but compared to a multitude of other code smells it's pretty mild and harmless.

> The locals() function itself could for instance have been replaced by something else

So could .format, or any|everything. Also, where do you think Python looks for {foo}? I'll give you a hint, it starts with "l" and ends with "ocals".

I really like the fact that it allows the program logic to be exposed as Python, CLI & Web API in one fell swoop.

It makes me think about what other interfaces could be automagically created at the same time -- C? Simulink?

At a quick glance, this reminds me of bottle. The fact that it uses falcon as a basis for the engine is great too. I get the feeling that you could write up an API with this in a day and it would perform well.

Practical programming is still a craft, not a science. Feelings often count enough to mention.

I used web.py to do a similar process about 1.5 years ago. In that, I mapped the GET and POST elements to functions which then did whatever I needed them to do.

This makes it even easier and I see it having a good fit in hacking up PoC APIs. In my case, I was querying some databases and aggregating data for display in a web page as well as via XML/JSON in a RESTful interface. This would make the XML/JSON stuff very easy indeed.

Honestly I'm mosts impressed that the example gif is only ~480kb despite being high quality and pretty long! How did you do that, author?

I'm not the author, but I'm pretty sure GIFs start to inflate when you increase colour depth.

GIFs we see on social networks are typically captured from videos of real-life objects, places and people, so the source colour-depth is pretty high (to account for the necessary shades created by varying exposure to light in three dimensions) and thus even a poor-quality GIF is going to be quite big to represent the source media with any discernible accuracy.

Since that terminal sports very few colours, it can be saved with low colour-depth and thence remain very small, despite size and length.

Asciinema could also be a useful way to present the example.

https://asciinema.org/

It wouldn't be useful in this particular case because you wouldn't actually get to see the browser window (I guess you could curl it or something). But this is a really neat tool, I'll definitely be using it. Thanks for sharing!

http://i.imgur.com/5sReybQ.gif Same image -> 333kb. There are a few tricks that you can apply to reduce the size while keeping the same visible quality: http://ezgif.com/optimize

Gimp ;) (I know this doesn't answer your question, but it's the only answer I have O:-))

Run-length encoding FTW

Looks nice. I loved the README - good concise examples that illustrate why each piece is there.

While browsing his other repos, I found this tool by the same author, which is also really great:

https://github.com/timothycrosley/isort

(Emacs integration works very well!)

This looks neat. I like the 404 handler showing a spec!

The title confused me as I expected something to help me write a CLI app... If anyone else was thinking that way I highly recommend looking at pyinvoke.org or Argh.

author: Hug actually does make it super easy to write a CLI app, you can see an example here: https://github.com/timothycrosley/hug/blob/develop/examples/... and a full explanation of the concept here: https://github.com/timothycrosley/hug/blob/develop/ARCHITECT...

So how would I use Hug as a secure public API -- https, authentication, authorization? Would I read up on Falcon? Are there any examples you could point to of how that might be done?

Is there a https example? Personally I think all examples online should use ssl by default these days. http should be banned altogether.

That's not how things work when using any WSGI based framework, the SSL part should be handled by either uwsgi / gunicorn or nginx. Development servers (hug or Flask or any other) should basically never be used directly. Examples can, and should be done using HTTP to allow local testing.

That looks really cool ! I actually started to use Falcon for a relatively simple REST only backend (for a py3 project). This might make my life a bit easier.

If it uses Falcon under the hood, why not just use Falcon?

It has a way simpler programming interface then Falcon while retaining the speed benefits: and is really a way more powerful concept as explained here: https://github.com/timothycrosley/hug/blob/develop/ARCHITECT...

The real question should be, why take the time to write Falcon when you can get the same performance and more code-reuse using hug?

Perhaps they will like your simplifications, and could merge them.

They really aren't compatible concepts. It's sort of like the difference between werkzeug and Flask, those projects wouldn't and shouldn't ever be merged. Falcon is like a much faster werkzeug with a great maintainer, we've discussed the projects together and both agree that they both should remain separate and both are mutually beneficial.

Computers use binary under the hood, but we layer abstractions on top of that to make programming easier and more productive.

Neat. Swagger and HAL support make APIs easier to digest

Reminds me of all the good stuff I liked from node's restify. I've used allot of python api frameworks and I definitely like the direction.

Can we have a benchmarking post done? Flask, Bottle, Django and maybe even Falcon(http://falconframework.org/) ?

Congrats on shipping and taking the time to post and answer questions here.

Looks like a nice step forward. I am looking forward to trying this out!

How could you not like this with that mascot?

How does this help development of a REST API? Seems more like a webserver

I didn't know Python 3 supported some of the syntax in use here.

Looks mildly inspired by itty!

Are you referring to decorators? Those have been around since Python 2.4, and have been used for this kind of purpose for over a decade.