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I Quit My Day Job. Thanks. (joelonsoftware.com)
203 points by vijayr on Jan 13, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 52 comments



Would be nice if the link showed this was from DISCUSS.joelonsoftware.com... My first reaction was "Joel quit his day job!?!"


mine was "wait...Joel had a job?"


Haha yeah that was my first reaction too, was rather shocking ;-)


Congrats Patrick!

For entirely selfish reasons, I hope you start consulting for AdWords/marketing/optimization stuff :-D (If you do, please contact me! (email in profile)).

BCC seems like a great way for you to have learned a lot, but I hope you find a new product that is really worthy of you!

Incidentally, is it normal for a company to want you to stick around for 6+ months? I usually give 2 weeks notice, but offer to stay for 4 if needed ...


Life-time employment is sort of on the decline in Japan, and it was never as big as the popular press had it, but be that as it may I have a job which implies lifetime employment and am considered fairly valuable to my company (particularly for my age). I was pretty honest with them when I started that I could promise them 2 ~ 3 years and we'd reevaluate where we were then, and it has been 2.5 years and I have reevaluated.

That said, they've been good to me and I don't want to burn bridges or poison the well for their next foreign employee. (By, for example, doing what I'm entitled to under Japanese labor law and just giving them two weeks. Sure, the contract says I can do that, but the social relationship is the real contract. One thing I've learned over the years is that that is true in America, too, but we're less cognizant about it.)

So, if they want me to stick around a little while to help them finish a project or two, I'm inclined to attempt to be flexible.


Patrick you really need to do some work on the bingo card creator website. Even though I knew you had an online version from your posts here, it took me ages to find out where I could use it on your site.

The site seems to suggest that the online version is merely a trial version for the desktop, which I know isn't the case.

Rather than:

- Buy now $29.95

- Download free trial

- Try now no download

It might be better to simplify:

- Try now

- Download now for your PC

also you don't have any screenshots of the online version.


I always appreciate people giving me advice on my website, even if I don't end up taking it. It is unlikely that I will take your advice.

Here is my reasoning: the audience of my website might hypothetically include programmers who know me from off-site and are looking for the online version, but, well, y'all don't pay my rent. The people who do pay my rent are overwhelmingly non-technical 30 ~ 50 year old women who are arriving from a Google search. The page is optimized for them to comprehend what I'm offering in 5 seconds or less. And what I offer is "A solution for the problem you were just searching for", not a download and not an online version.

You are right, some people do get the impression that the online version is the trial and the downloadable (or CD version) is what they are paying for. I get email to that effect. You'll note that that miscomprehension doesn't hurt either the customer or myself -- they get two more-or-less functionally equivalent ways to access the software they paid for, I get $29.95 either way. On the other hand, I have tested more explicit (and longer) explanations of the relationship between the two than what I have currently, and it just decreases conversion rate to both options. There is a lot to be said for being succinct.

The Buy button you simplified out of the redesign makes me ~$1k a month -- in a non-trivial number of instances, before the customer has even tried the software.

I do not have screenshots of the online version because the primary purpose of the screenshot is to demonstrate that I really have software to sell and am not an Evil Internet Scammer. (I sell to people who fear the Internet and their computers.) Letting them try it instantly assuages that fear for the online version. (Besides, it looks fugly.)


I always appreciate people giving me advice on my website, even if I don't end up taking it.

Ok, here is what I would do. Dramatically simplify the whole experience:

* The front page says "Make bingo cards on your computer" in large print

* The front page has a word list form directly on it. This form can be filled either with one of the predefined wordlists, or manually.

* There is a button that says "Make Preview" that generates a PDF with the unprintable flag set. Put a gray "PREVIEW" across the pages if you are worried about nerd sons stripping out the flag.

* There is a button that says "Make Printable Cards" that requires payment and generates a real PDF. Along with the payment form, offer or require a sign up so that they can retrieve their saved cards and word lists.

Basically eliminate all the stages, even the one that takes you from front page to using the software.


I couldn't see your buy now button at first, I scrolled all the way down and went back up to find it.

Maybe it is just me but the combination of shape and colors and placement was hard for me to read, I might just be more used to a button on the right and screenshot on the left type layout though.

Edit: To clarify shape I think my brain just assumed they were ad boxes and moved on.


Sure, the contract says I can do that, but the social relationship is the real contract.

Completely agree. I had to serve a three months notice period when I quit my last job. Everyone outside the company that I mentioned that to was shocked and said that I should just do a month at the most and leave. But I liked my company and the people and didn't want to screw them. So I stayed to finish my projects and left on a positive note. Plus the extra savings didn't hurt.


It depends a lot on the job culture.

When you are downsized in the US, a security guard escorts you to the door. In Germany, an engineer I know was fired last year (business reasons). He will continue working until june.


might labor regulations have something to do with this? German corps might have an incentive to keep him working while he looks for a job rather than having to pay some kind of severance/unemployment?

I never really understood the rationale behind laying someone off then escorting them out the door. Presumably its so they don't damage the company in some way because they're pissed. But a major reason people are pissed is because their employer just fucked them over. People can handle being fired for business reasons if it doesn't throw them right out on the street. People can handle "I'm sorry, but we can't afford you past April. Let me know if you need a reference or need to take time for an interview." Apparently, HR is never taught common decency.


"When you are downsized in the US, a security guard escorts you to the door."

Not when I was downsized. I got a month's grace-period and everyone said goodbye when I left.


The UK varies - if you get fired they tend to escort you out under guard. If you leave they work you to the last second of your notice and hope you can be persuaded to stay late and finish 'just one more thing'.


I know you heard from a bunch of people before you met us in Chicago, Patrick, but I'm still going to say "I told you so" on the consulting thing.


Incidentally, thanks for opening my eyes about that one.


I'd also be interested in hiring Patrick as an AdWords/marketing/optimization consultant :-)


That is Patrick (patio11) of Bingo Card Creator.


I reject this announcement as invalid, for having not been done on HN. Scoff

Really though, he hinted before, so this is good news. I can't wait to see what his sales charts start doing, once he's been full-time for a few months.


Actually, he did it on HN. Just reread his rap lyrics blog post.


Yeah, discuss.joelonsoftware.com is for shareware developers.


A category which Bingo Card Creator fits into pretty handily.


This is sort of an aside, but I will never describe my software as shareware within earshot of a customer. (I sometimes use the word as a shortcut for "I sell B2C software over the Internet" around other developers.)

I think shareware is an outmoded name, an outmoded distribution model, and has connotations that I do not want for my business. Everyone selling software as a product has a "try before you buy" option these days. You can download an evaluation version of Microsoft Office. In that respect, shareware has conquered its rude conquerors.

But do I really want my customers sharing my software? No. I have a website, it is the authoritative place for it. I don't depend on viral distribution of my software, like classical shareware distributors did many many years ago when passing copies of executables to your friends was likely to result in a good user experience.

My customers (largely non-technical folks) may not understand what shareware means and, to the extent they have any impression of the word, it is probably negative. For example, they might think it is "software I don't have to pay for" or "cruddy software which is going to give my Google a virus." I don't want my customers thinking they don't have to pay for my cruddy software which is going to give their Google a virus. I want them thinking "I have a problem and paying Patrick is the fastest way to solve it." Branding myself as shareware does not get me any closer to that objective.


You know what the comments remind me of? The scene in the TV series "The Corner" when one of the female addicts finally decides to quit and go off into rehab, and how all the other addicts encouraged her and were happy for her, while themselves remaining stuck in their drug moor.

You should watch that show, by the way.


Are you under the impression that most of them remain employed as working stiffs? Because I know at least half of them are full-time (and my sales would be rounding error to most of them).


There are many lurkers living vicariously. :)


I am sure Patio11 will go own to do great things. I often find myself saying "Damn this guy is smart" after reading his opinions on just about anything.

Good luck Pat.


Not trying to be rude, but who is Patrick McKenzie? From what I've gathered, he created an app called Bingo Card Creator and blogs about it. I haven't had a chance to peruse his entire blog, but I'm assuming that his posts are pretty solid to justify this being news?


His blog is a joy to read, and one can learn lots from it. But more importantly, he is always willing to help - just take a look at YC and BoS forums, he is always sharing his knowledge, giving advice etc.

Well deserved. Congrats Patrick.


Patrick == patio11 (which is mentioned in the top comment in this thread). Most of us know him from his activity in comment threads here. He has written a lot of about the process of building a MicroISV on his blog, and he's a pretty smart guy to boot.


Congratulations and good luck!

Are you staying in Japan?


Nice, congrats on making the jump Patrick, I've really enjoyed your BCC posts.


Awesome news! Glad to hear you are doing what you want to do.


Congratulation Patrick!

I second John Clark's comment on the business of software forum. You should see if you can negotiate some freelance work with your ex-employer, that's what I did with the company I used to work for in Japan and it worked very well.

And, if you can justify a certain amount of revenue each months like this it can help renew your visa in Japan.


Wow, congrats Patrick!


I've been waiting for this for a long time. Congrats to Patrick!


Awesome! Been wondering when you'd get to that point, since you've been growing BCC at such a steady pace, with what seems like a limited time thanks to your day job.

Also, your comments about the way things are in the Japanese workforce make me glad I don't work over there ;-)


You shouldn't feel that way. Labor protection is much, much stronger in Japan than the US, or many other first-world nations, for that matter. Having said that he's right to point out that the social contract is generally more important, however if you're being taken advantage of the law is on your side.

As for self-employment I can't imagine it's much harder, if for no other reason than health insurance/care is cheap and easy to come by, but I don't have any direct experience there. Seems to be a fair bit of self-employed IT folks in Tokyo though, particularly among non-Japanese.


Labor protection is much, much stronger in Japan than the US, or many other first-world nations, for that matter.

It's not that simple. Although permanent employees can't be fired easily, dispatched workers and temps are a significant (and growing) proportion of the workforce and may be fired at will.

We don't have long vacations like in some European countries, nor do we have "sick days" (lots of national holidays, though).

Some companies put a cap on overtime pay (not on overtime work), some smaller ones don't pay it at all. And so on.

You're right about the law being on the worker's side. Most people won't sue, though.

As for self-employment I can't imagine it's much harder,

I think it's not hard bureaucracy-wise, except for potential visa problems. I wonder how Patrick will deal with that (I once had an offer to work as contractor but had to reject in part because of visa headaches).

Many translators are self-employed. But I don't know anyone working in IT that is self-employed, probably because most Japanese companies don't like to hire individual IT contractors. Or maybe my sample is too small.


I just quit my day job and moved to Japan (Tokyo specifically) and I have to say: the option to buy healthcare is pretty nice. It's priced according to your previous year's tax return, so those who can pay more, do so.

I have also found a very healthy tech community here, although the bridge between the locals and the foreigners is somewhat weak.

Also, new stories on HN are on the US cycle so I'm usually commenting when people are asleep. I feel like the comment fairy.


Congrats Patrick. I'm planning to do the same soon, maybe in about 4 momth. The whole process of planning for it does feel like running off of a cliff for me. You have been a source of inspiration !!


I know this doesn't add to the conversation, but Congratulations Patrick!


Did he get a recoding contract? "Will single founders please stand up?"



Congratulations Patrick. Can't wait to see what you come up with.

Best of luck with everything.


Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, you're free at last!


Congrats, Patrick!


Congrats Patrick!


Congrats Patrick! Excited to hear whats next.


So did Rob Glaser.


I don't understand why this post has the #1 spot


As vijayr put it

That is Patrick (patio11) of Bingo Card Creator.

He's an active member of the community.

See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1050982




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