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You're not understanding these things in their proper historical context. We have to have a state, the state has to get funded somehow. The question is how. Progressive taxation is the product of tens of thousands of years of civic development, a process that started with gangs of armed men raiding your farm taking whatever the hell they wanted.

Yes there is a connection between time and money. But they are not the same. A person can, throughout their life, learn how to trade less of their time for more money. That makes taxation far less of a burden than slavery. The two are not equatable in the slightest.

And progressive taxation does not tax innovation and growth as much as you might think it does. In the United States, it is often thought that getting "bumped into another tax bracket" has you paying a larger percentage of your income as taxes in very non-smooth way. But it is smooth, you only pay a greater percentage of money you make in excess of the 'dividing line'.

This year, the cutoff between 15% and 25% is $37,450. If you make $37,451, then you do not pay 25% of $37,451. You pay an amount somewhat less than 15% of $37,450, (to account for the lower tax brackets) plus 25% of one dollar. You keep less of your earned income, but there is never a disincentive to keep improving and growing.

Compared to alternative ways of funding the state, progressive income tax regimes have proven their worth in many countries. The US is the most economically powerful nation on Earth, so if a progressive taxation regime is bad, it must not be that bad.




"A person can, throughout their life, learn how to trade less of their time for more money. That makes taxation far less of a burden than slavery."

I keep reading this as "there's this field of cotton you need to pick; if you get done early, have some time off."

I'll grant you that progressive taxation in the context of an objective tax law is significantly better than roving bands of armed thugs.

But that's not a very high bar; surely we can do better from a moral perspective?


> I keep reading this as "there's this field of cotton you need to pick; if you get done early, have some time off."

You shouldn't. It's more like, "Here's a field of cotton you could pick, if you want to, we'll give you these pieces of paper with which you can buy whatever you want. Don't want to pick cotton but still want money? Here's a cotton-picking machine you could learn how to use, we'll pay you twice as much if you can figure it out.

Your moral argument seems to boil down to "give me what I want for free or I'm going to call you an enslaving bastard."


Ah, right. I'm in total agreement with you.

What I was referring to was the arrangement between the worker and the State, when compulsory taxation is involved.


OK, you don't seem to understand the primary role of the state, which is protecting you from other states.

Before states, you had endless raiding. Each farmer didn't have the resources to maintain an army to protect him. You can crowdsource that protection, but then you have a standing army, which is a necessary evil in a violent world.

Without a state and an army, some other state's army is going to move in and conquer you, therefore, there's no getting around the need for a state and the necessity of funding it. Being conquered is no fun.

States are still every bit as necessary now as they were before, aggression from other states is still a thing. And you can't fund a state with voluntary taxation, you won't raise enough money. Therefore it's compulsory. Your moral argument still boils down to "give me what I want for free." You may not think you want a state, but all that means is that you're blind to what would happen in its absence.


You're completely misreading my position.

1) It's good to have a State. 2) The primary purpose of a State is not protection from other States, it's to protect the rights of its citizens, i.e. to uphold the law. 3) This may take the form of protecting its citizens against each other (Police, Courts, etc.) or against foreign threats (Defense). All are legitimate.

I think the only disagreement we have is over whether voluntary taxation would be sufficient.

Do you really believe that, say in the case of New Zealand, the majority of working adults wouldn't be willing to stump up $2,500k / annum - this, in the absence of any other taxation - to pay for the State and all the benefits it brings?




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