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How do you get anything done? You seem so hung up on the tools versus creating stuff with tools. I guess it makes sense because you're the maintainer of a web framework ... for perl ... a language saddled with a checkered history of generating some pretty unmaintainable shit. And my guess is that you will respond saying "you can write maintainable code in perl!" And, of course, one would counter that you can do the same with PHP. Which boils this whole discussion down to being about the developers and the quality of developers, and less about the quality of the languages.

So why are there so many crappy PHP developers? Because anyone can make it do something approximating what they are envisioning it doing, no matter the skill level. That seems pretty powerful to me. And, in the end, it's really about the results instead of how one necessarily got to those results. You can't make money if you don't deliver a product. And if history is any indication, only a tiny fraction of the masses care about quality. The dominance of Wal-mart and MySpace are proof of this. My guess about your guess is those millions of lost man-hours have been made up with the millions of hours beating competing products to market due to the rapid nature of PHP development. I mean if we are throwing around unverifiable assumptions, let's do it, let's get crazy with it.

"A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop." - Robert Hughes



You undermine your argument by making it personally aggressive.


jrockway is a PHP troll. There is most certainly a history here that goes way back.

Personally aggressive? Maybe. Deservedly? Probably.


Even if you're right, the point is that it degrades the site for everybody if you engage in it.


I am not a PHP troll, I just point out its technical weaknesses when people claim that it is technically superior to other solutions.


I've never seen someone say it's technically superior. I don't think any PHP dev in their right mind would even think of making that claim and I've certainly never seen such claims on here.

And definitely not in this post. And, yes, you are a troll.


How am I trolling?




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