Why the hell are they so insistent on fucking up the storage situation on Android phones?
The N1 has just 512mb flash built in, and while it has a Micro SD slot for your media, Android will only use the system flash for storing the OS, apps, and app data. They screwed up earlier with the G1 which only had 256mb, not enough to install any official OS updates, and instead of learning their lesson they just bumped it up one notch.
While users may plead loudly about how they want expandable storage, they fucking hate it when you make them manage what's stored where, and this is not a UI area you're going to be able to polish. 4gb of flash is the bare minimum you can get away with, and premium SKUs with 32gb+ are a given -- this is your chance to pile on markup without anyone complaining.
Apple's abhorrence towards removable storage isn't just because Jobs is a dick, or the form factor compromises, but simply because it's a usability nightmare.
It really is. Fortunately with modded firmwares you can use the SD card for more than it was originally intended, like partitioning it for storing your applications and even a linux swap. Still, it's a mega usability nightmare. Because the card also stores all your photos and music, when you want to connect it to your computer it has to unmount on the device, and there goes all your apps with it. Which causes things to hang and die.
Considering the cost of physical memory these days.. it doesn't make sense not to include a larger bit of internal storage. Heck they can even keep the SD slot on there for extra storage for those who desire it.
Depends on how you expose the SD card to the computer. If you let it touch the filesystem directly, then yeah, the device can't use the card at the same time. But if you make the phone act like a USB network card, and then run Samba on that network interface, both devices can modify the data at the same time. (My Archos/Android mp3 player does this.)
There is also some media sync protocol that Microsoft invented that avoids this problem.
Since applications store most of their resources on the SD card the ROM size isn't a huge deal for potential application room. The binaries themselves are fairly small. But yeah, at least ship a 16GB card in the thing. It just looks bad to say 4GB on a spec sheet for a SmartPhone these days.
The kind of person that picks up an Android phone is tech-savvy enough to handle manual file storage. I like it, actually, because it lets me use my phone as a flash drive.
Regarding app data, from the Gizmodo liveblog:
They store apps in the internal ROM and not on the SD card now, for piracy reasons, but they will offer an upgrade soon for installing apps on the SD card.
That's why they're still a niche player- it's far too much about techies and open source fans right now, and that will poison the App Store selection moving forward for the mainstream.
FYI, for AT&T customers considering making the plunge:
The currently available Nexus One device is unlocked and will recognize SIM cards from any mobile service provider using the GSM standard, but is incompatible with the frequency band used by the AT&T and Rogers networks for 3G data (see below).
( http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?answer=1... )
I can confirm this. Stuck my AT&T SIM in my N1 and no 3G. Here's the deal:
Most of the world = 3G 2100, AT&T = 3G 850/1900, T-Mo USA = 3G 1700/2100 MHz, Nexus One = 3G 900/1700/2100. (For reference, iPhone 3G = 3G 850/1900/2100).
It's actually a little more complicated than this and the terminology makes it very confusing. The key to this is that the frequency band is different from the actual frequencies used for the radio.
Much of the world's 3G usage is on the 2100 frequency band. This actually operates on two frequency ranges, ~1900 uplink and ~2100 downlink.
In this same vein, AT&T has 2 separate frequency bands, 850 and 1900. 850 operates on ~824/~869 and 1900 operates on ~1850/~1930.
T-Mo actually only has one 3G frequency band, 1700 MHz. This operates on ~1710/~2100, but actually this is not compatible with the world-wide 2100 frequency band.
Most, if not all, 3G T-Mo USA phones support at least the 1700 and 2100 frequency bands. Nexus One also supports 900 MHz, which makes sense since Vodafone uses that band in Europe and Nexus One will soon be on Vodafone.
Sure, I get that. But the description above should suffice for most people. It's the same terminology used by the GSM Association: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml (this link is awesome in that it shows you what bands the different carriers use for various services)
The description might be sufficient, but it's inaccurate. You can't say AT&T 850/1900 and T-Mo 1700/2100 in one sentence. It's not the same context. You can say AT&T 850/1900 and T-Mo 1700.
The point is it's more difficult for phone manufacturers to make world phones for AT&T because they have to use up two bands just for AT&T, and those two bands are not commonly used in Europe or Asia.
Okay, yeah, you're right. But the takeaway is that while the two American networks are incompatible both the N1 and the iPhone should support world roaming equally well.
How different to the days of working at Symbian (many years ago).
There:
Engineers: "We should do X, Y and Z!"
Technology Managers: "Our owners/partners don't want us to do any of that. We have a five year lead on the competition, we don't need to do this stuff."
Google Nexus One announcement:
"Together with those partners, we have increased the rate of innovation. The volume [and] variety of Android phones... have exceeded our expectations. But we want to do more and one of the questions we asked ourselves a long time ago was, 'What if we worked even more closely with our partners to bring devices to the market that are going to help showcase very quickly the technology we're working at on Google."
My prediction for the mobile industry: further disruption.
Still holding out for a similar phone with a hardware keyboard. BTW, I've heard tell that the Droid has a hardware keyboard, but you can't feel the difference between keys, making it less usable than the G1's keyboard. Can anyone corroborate that?
I have a Nexus One and I have to say I've quickly become ALMOST as good at typing as I was on the iPhone. Sometimes the lack of multi-touch (pressing one key while you're letting up on another) bites you in the ass but it's pretty rare.
My primary issue with the keyboard is that it's very close to the four un-beveled buttons below the screen. I'll quite often hit "back" when I mean to hit "?123" which is pretty annoying.
I've also had good success with the new voice recognition feature for short emails and text messages.
Overall the keyboard is much less polished than the iPhone but I was pleasantly surprised at how usable it was.
Why's the pressing one key while you're letting up another a problem? Presumably it's either registering on press or release, but not both? Or is there more complicated fancy business going on?
If you type fast enough you'll often be pressing the second key with your other thumb before the first thumb has quite left the keyboard. The iPhone allows for this but the N1 doesn't (or doesn't appear to in limited testing).
I've had my Droid a little over a month now. While I'd definitely say the keys are less tactile than my last QWERTY phone (Treo 650), I can touch-type easily enough, and my typing speed is about what I'd expect from the device. My complaint with the keyboard is more that it's off-center, because of the directional pad. That still feels a bit awkward to me.
Have a Droid, and I'd suggest that the difference between the keys is subtle, but not non-existent. Best idea is to get your hands on one and try it. I love it and have had almost no problems typing on it, but it seems to be a love it/hate it sort of thing. That being said, I hated software keyboards... until the Droid. I actually find myself using the software keyboards (one for each orientation of the phone) more often than the hardware keyboard.
What about the Droid's software keyboards are different that makes them more usable?
I'm always trying to force myself to use the G1's software keyboard, but I can only seem to use it in one of two ways: wantonly mash and hope the predictive/spelling correction code figures out that I typed "devtsvuldt" but meant "spectacular" (thus pausing periodically to carefully click the correct suggestion), and occasionally being forced to abandon a word and backspace it out because it is so mangled that even Google's rocket scientists couldn't write a spelling corrector that can figure it out; or meticulously pecking words out letter-by-letter, trying to enter that zen-like state of mind where my fear of misspelling has been released, and my fat white thumb is free to alight on the correct section of touchscreen as if guided by the nameless Tao itself.
Both are excruciating compared to finding the two little nubbins on "F" and "J" and going from there.
>What about the Droid's software keyboards are different that makes them more usable?
You know, I hate to say it, but I don't actually know. I don't have large fingers, but I've always had trouble with software keyboards, from the iPhone to the Blackberry Storm family. Just today I was getting a Blackberry activated and found the experience of addressing a PIN message absolutely excruciating.
The Droid just seems to know what letter I'm going for, and almost always picks the right one. I'm not sure if this is a byproduct of better resolution on the touchscreen, more intelligent software in the background, or some quirk of my fingers and the Droid's particular implementation, but I simply don't experience trouble hitting keys anymore.
I suppose its possible that the change is me, not the Droid, but to this day I find most other platforms difficult to use, and pine for my Droid's keyboard whenever I'm on another software device.
If you root the device you can install the same HTC input manager (keyboard, AKA the HTC_IME) and use that as a replacement keyboard, which is MUCH better. It's better out of the box, and as Nwallins said, it's even better once calibrated.
Note for future readers: "Touch Input" (HTC_IME) can be installed as a package on the "vanilla" Android OS without rooting. It breaks your hardware keyboard, though (even on a rooted device).
I find the new Swype soft keyboard is much faster on Droid than the hardware keyboard or any of the other soft keyboards. It's even faster the best hardware keyboard I have used, the Treo 650. Swype takes an entirely new approach of tracing over the keys instead of pressing them.
I have a droid, and the hardware keyboard is fine. There are little raised underscores on the F key and on the J key. It is ok for regular use, but probably not useful for development, as an example. Don't have a G1 to compare.
My gold standard for keyboards is still my hp200lx!
Agreed, give me a blackberry, at least their new phones come out in all countries within a reasonable time. I'll say hello to the Nexus One in about two years when the american companies decide to get their thumbs out of their collective asses.
fwiw, t-mobile is going that route with all of their phones and plans (called "even more plus"). if you sign up with them and have your own phone (or want to pay for the phone upfront), your monthly plan is less money and you have no contract. you can of course still buy subsidized phones through them for the normal monthly rate and a 2-year contract.
Which kinda makes T-Mobile the only real option if you have an unlocked phone. Why spend all that money on the phone if you're still going to be paying to subsidize something you didn't buy? As long as you're happy with the service, of course.
T-Mobile has constantly been coming out on top as of late, (in regards to customer relations/treatment) but they still don't quite have the network though, do they?
TMobile service is great in big cities. When I go home its 1g and Roaming(free). The real nice point is the great prices and excellent customer service. Today I called to see when my upgrade date is and I had a person on the phone and was done in 1 minute.
T-Mobile also has a policy of unlocking subsidized phones at the request of customers in good standing. 90 days? Paid your bills? Just call and ask. Done.
I've used t-mobile since they were called Voicestream. This was in New England, SW Florida, and now DC. Their network doesn't have the penetration of Verizon but I have never had any substantial issues with service. They even recently expanded to provide service in the DC Metro, which was a pleasant surprise.
I have the same plan I've had since the Sidekick II (with modifications for data on newer devices), which I got with a subsidized phone, and then renewed for two years with a subsidized G1. It is about the same as the new "unsubsidized" price for phone+data. If I buy this phone, I will pay about $20 more per month for service and will be locked into paying it for two years. This is still less than the price of the unsubsidized phone, of course, but I am still kinda annoyed that phone service keeps getting more expensive and only gradually getting faster and more widespread, despite all other kinds of tech getting cheaper and faster.
In Italy most phones are sold unsubsidized. It's the exception rather than the rule to see subsidized prices. In Austria, I would say it was about 50/50.
The US is pretty weird for mobile stuff. Here in Europe, as far as I know, you basically just pop a different SIM in a phone and everything pretty much works. Also, you don't pay when someone calls you.
By the way, that's why it was easy for Twitter to provide free sms forwarding in US (first). Operators would easily agree - they'll get the money from recipient.
Sure, though it's worth noting that you could already buy and activate an unlocked phone on most carriers. Most people don't because, well, unlocked phones are expensive and you typically don't get a discount on your service fee for buying one.
The cool thing here is that T-Mobile actually has a decent contract-less post-pay plan.
Seriously? Parts can't be more than $200 for this. I mean, they sell the iPod Touch for $200 which costs $155 to make ( http://iphonetouch.blorge.com/2007/12/19/ipod-touch-bests-ip... ). Is a GSM radio IC expensive? Hell no. They're in bed with the carriers, and they're even worse than Apple because they're trying to say that they aren't.
To be fair you're missing a lot of parts and the ones that they share are a lot more high end on the N1. Twice the CPU, 4x the RAM, over 2x as large a screen, GSM/EDGE/UMTS/HSDPA radios, GPS, compass, still/video camera with flash and autofocus, etc etc.
And on top of all that iSuppli's figure is just an estimate. Considering every phone in the same league as the N1 is in a similar price, there aren't obscene profits being made. If they really cost $150 to make someone somewhere would start selling them for cheaper--we're talking CE here which is defined by brutal price wars. Don't think that HTC would settle for being an OEM when they could own the market by selling devices at 1/3 the price directly.
I suppose the question is, why is the iPhone over $500 more than the iPod touch? Is there really that much hardware/software differentiation between the two to justify the increased price?
I suppose the ability to make calls and access data almost anywhere makes it that much more valuable to people, or they would not be able to price it as such.
Sure, the parts might cost $155; but you can't do much without knowing how to connect the parts together, and without spending millions on finding the right combination of parts.
And then there's the software on top of that which others have noted.
The parts are the variable cost, software and know how are largely fixed. In a normal market, prices would trend towards the variable cost. The US cell phone market, however, is an oligopoly of large carriers that push the "retails" prices on phones high so they can lock people into contracts by selling the "subsidized" phones. Thus, prices won't trend towards the marginal cost. They'll stay high.
That's a long winded way of saying: if carriers (and handset makers) didn't have a massive chubby for long term contracts, prices on handsets would be much, much lower. The iPod Touch is a good example of that. It's obviously worth Apple selling it for a ~30% margin, assuming the $155 parts cost is correct. What do you suppose the margins on the actual iPhone are?
Completely agree. I'd like to know how much they really need to actually sell these things for. iPod Touches go for, what, $500 less than an unlocked phone? This sucks. I'd love to have a 3G Android phone on ATT as well as my iPhone, just to develop on an try out, but the market makes this impossible.
Is there a reason not to buy a subsidized phone and just eat the termination fee immediately? (I'm assuming it's ~$200, but might be different for smartphones)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the early termination fee was less than the difference, so that the black market value for an unsubsidized phone would be a good bit better than the official one.
The unsubsidized price is US$529, but it operates on a frequency band that is incompatible with the Rogers 3G network, so that won't really help you Canadians, eh.
I was looking at WINDs pricing, and the unlimmited only seems to be in WIND home areas, and [for the time being] that didn't seem very large.
Also, while it looks like it will work on WIND, it won't be able to roam on Roger's 3G, which seems like it would be useful until they have a more complete network roll-out.
Even when it is available in Canada, my main concern will be who is going to offer it, and how outrageous will the pricing be. After seeing the way Rogers has handled the iPhone (Apple was a willing accomplice, to be fair), I figure it can only get better.
The interesting thing that I haven't seen many talk about is that the subsidized phone is still apparently unlocked. Which makes it great for traveling etc. This alone would be a really big deal for me.
This also means that as long as you stick with the plan for at least 120 days you can get out of the contract and still use the phone for TMobiles $200 early termination fee.
While I love my iPhone it really annoys me that there is no way I can pay AT&T to unlock it like I would be able to in most European countries.
T-Mobile has unlocked all my subsidized phones for me. Unlike most providers, you just have to ask and they send you the code. I believe you have to be a customer in good standing for a few months first.
No. 300 DPI printing is not the same as 300 DPI on screen, because one dot on screen can be multiple colors (depending on the color depth, typically 16,777,216 can be expected), while one dot on paper is, well, either black or white. So for the same DPI, screen outperforms paper. 250 DPI on screen will definitely beat 300 DPI on paper.
After a quick search, I see you can get a 1200 dpi black and white laser printer for less than $100. Colour printers can overlay colours or pre mix the ink.
yes awesome! since your fingers don't get any smaller, maybe that's why they decided to put a trackball on a cell phone. perhaps there will also be a separately sold stylus.
True. And in case the sunlight is strong enough to make an OLED unreadable, you should probably not reading papers either -- that's very bad for your eyes.
I was hoping that as an existing T-Mobile customer, I'd be able to use one of those "upgrade discounts" for the Nexus One. The good news is that I can, the bad news is that as an existing customer I get the unsubsidized price:
Congratulations! You qualify for an upgrade.
There may be changes to your service plan and your contract will be renewed for 2 years from the activation of your upgraded phone.
He's saying he gets the unsubsidized price with the subsidized restrictions (meaning it's locked).
I also am a T-Mo customer (whose contract has expired) and wondered if I would get a good deal by signing up for another 2 years. It turns out it's actually MORE for me to sign up as an existing customer:
Phone $529.00
Service Plan Discount - $250.00
Total: $279.00
(excluding tax and shipping)
This is really stupid and is just insulting. I mean if I just cancel my current plan and get a new one I can get it for $179 but as a current customer who has been with them for years (out of contract!) I have to pay $100 more.
You may get a better deal if you buy unsubsidized but stay with your current plan. You may need to first change some of the options on your plan. For example, I currently have a "feature phone" with $6/month 3G "T-mobile web" access. As far as I can tell, I can get the Nexus unsubsidized and continue with this plan. This would be substantially cheaper than $180 + $80/month over 24 months.
Oh, that's terrible. T-Mobile has been great to me (but I've never been under contract with them, came to them with an unlocked phone) I would say I can't believe that's how it is, but I've learned to quit be astounded by customer abuse by pretty much all telcos.
The blogs were saying that even if you buy it with T-mobile service, you get an unlocked phone. It's only the contract that locks you in with T-mob, not the phone.
This is quite bland... I'm trying hard to see how this particular device is innovative and I just don't see it.
Different branding, ok, better screen, ok, you can get it unlocked for an astronomical price and use it with a carrier of your choice, ok. So is every other new phone.
It's Android and Android is the future or something? What am I missing?
I've been doing lots of BlackBerry hacking lately (working on the Hecl port), and compared to Android, those guys just don't "get it". Everything is a pain in the neck, very fiddly, Windows only, and often quirky. They're nice devices, but RIM just doesn't strike me as being able to turn around and produce a development experience that's pleasant.
In terms of that price, it's 368 euros at current rates, which is certainly high, but about what you'd see for other high end phones, and a lot lower than you'd pay for an iPhone.
Yep. Apple prices recently have been pretty much one to one even though the Euro was hovering around $1.50. It will be interesting to see what they do with this.
I've been playing with the Nexus One pretty heavily for the past 24 hours and I can confirm that the battery is basically what you'd expect. Heavy usage means you won't make it through the day, but you can easily do so on reasonable web surfing/texting and moderate numbers of phone calls.
From David Pogue ( http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/technology/personaltech/06... )"The Nexus can accommodate memory cards up to 32 gigabytes (a 4 gigabyte card comes with it) — and yet, inexplicably, the Nexus allots only the tiniest sliver of that (190 megabytes) for downloaded apps."
If this is a hard limit, this will be a total dealbreaker.
The "No" part: Android system has (at least) three partitions - system, cache and data. Data is where applications get installed. Cache is used, well, for caching data and it must be at least the same size as system (because it holds system image when updating over the air).
I don't know for sure how it is partitioned in N1, just guessing: the data partition is 192M, leaving 160M for system and 160M for cache.
The "Yes" part: android partitions on proprietary hardware (and N1 is proprietary hardware, just as G1/ADP1 is) are defined in proprietary boot loader. There is currently no way to change them without going through the risk of having $500 brick on your table.
I really do not understand what all the fuss was about. It's just another HTC Android phone. What does Google really even have to do with it (any more than all the other Android phones)? It seems like HTC could've just held their own press conference without involving Google but of course then there'd be no hype!
I guess from that viewpoint it's moderately interesting but as a phone it's really not much to get excited about compared to other modern Android phones like the Droid. Bah... I was expecting something huge!
The Droid is CDMA, which is a deal-killer for anyone travelling internationally. Also it's the first time in the US that a major phone has been sold with an option to buy it without a contract. This is fantastic from a user freedom perspective as Telco contracts in the US are typically quite abusive.
Does anyone know if I can buy a Nexus One and use it without a cell phone plan? Or if not, is there any Android phone that I can buy to use without a sim card?
You could certainly buy one and use it with a non-contract pay as you go kind of plan. To use voice, of course, you would need some sim card. Or do you want to just use it with wifi, like an iPod touch?
The Nexus One doesn't ship with a sim when you purchase the unlocked version. In that case it would be an iPod Touch... you'd rely on WiFi for all data usage.
I'd say that, although this is the best Android phone yet, the phone itself is not revolutionary.
The most important aspect of this story will be if the sales model catches on: buying your phone one place, and activating it another. The more people shop for the best phone, then for the best network, the more competitive pressure is on both to improve.
I have a T-Mobile plan right now - went to check on upgrade pricing through google's site but apparently their servers have crashed. I'm thinking I may wait for Verizon to get the phone...
Well, if Microsoft was selling a "Microsoft Phone", you'd expect something more than just a phone (albeit a nice one) with Windows Mobile installed, wouldn't you?
Definitely doesn’t beat the iPhone IMHO, but Google are moving at such lightning fast pace, I'm guessing we might see a Nexus 2 before the end of the year.
I doubt it but it's allows you to run your N access point in native mode with no B/G compatibility if your SmartPhone was the last device holding you back from going straight N.
If you buy the Nexus One with the T-Mobile plan, $79.99/month includes 500 minutes and unlimited data. It's detailed on the first step of the order process: https://www.google.com/phone/choose
Apparently you're one of fortunate few who've got it already. I'm not, but the fact that it does multitasking sounds very convenient to me compared to the iPhone. The mapping stuff looks very good as well.
As usual, a crappy carrier unless you want to shell out the $530. God I hate all these contractual obligations. AT&T bends over backwards for the iPhone, where's my Nexus One love :(
I'm not sure why T-Mobile is so hated on. I've never had problems with them, and haven't had any dropped calls I can think of. AT&T is total garbage, especially with iPhone users supersaturating the network. The "Even More Plus" plans basically translate to contract-free. I pay $59 a month for unlimited data/text, unlimited nights and weekends, unlimited t-mo to t-mo, and get 500 minutes. I don't talk a ton, so it's perfect. My equivalent iPhone plan was $99 a month, for lesser service.
T-Mobile is also significantly less evil than other carriers in that they're the only ones who are willing to unlock phones for their customers. Of course in a perfect world they wouldn't have the gall to sell you a locked phone in the first place, but if you explain that you're travelling internationally, they're usually quite obliging.
It's not compatible with AT&T's 3G network, so it would make very little sense for AT&T to offer a subsidy. Waiting until the CDMA version ships will net you the ability to have it on a large network with a subsidy.
I've been with T-Mobile on my G1 for 6 months. I get great 3G service in the Cleveland and New York areas... even customer service is fast and helpful. Just FYI. I'm a T-Mobile fan.
so the whole company is crappy because of one dead zone in your office? i'm sure you can find dead zones on any network.
when you compare things like customer service, rate plans, at&t's refusal to support tethering (which t-mobile allows), and phone availability (how many android phones does at&t have?), t-mobile doesn't look that bad.
The N1 has just 512mb flash built in, and while it has a Micro SD slot for your media, Android will only use the system flash for storing the OS, apps, and app data. They screwed up earlier with the G1 which only had 256mb, not enough to install any official OS updates, and instead of learning their lesson they just bumped it up one notch.
While users may plead loudly about how they want expandable storage, they fucking hate it when you make them manage what's stored where, and this is not a UI area you're going to be able to polish. 4gb of flash is the bare minimum you can get away with, and premium SKUs with 32gb+ are a given -- this is your chance to pile on markup without anyone complaining.
Apple's abhorrence towards removable storage isn't just because Jobs is a dick, or the form factor compromises, but simply because it's a usability nightmare.